Otis Chandler "1907" Harley in Fall Issue

[23JDCA 808]

Re: ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER!

Originally posted by HarleyCreation


From that FACT we can conclude that the oddball mismatched parts on these early 1905-1908 jobs are the result of bits and pieces and old "junk" machines re-assembled and cobbled together after 1919 with little if any effort to restore them correctly.

Note that they didn't ask for a 1903 or 1904. ...bill

[Earl]

Re: Re: ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER!

Originally posted by 23JDCA 808

Note that they didn't ask for a 1903 or 1904. ...bill

COULD THAT BE BECAUSE THEY KNEW THAT THERE WERE NONE TO BE HAD ??? !!!!


THEY KNEW FOR SURE !!!!!

[Chuck#1848]

Henry Ford Museum

Was there ever any reply from the Henry Ford Museum on that model on display in the museum?

They also got a nice looking Red Knuckle Head Sidecar Rig there to!

[c.o.]

Very interesting Bill......I think you nailed it!!! No requests for '03's or '04's!!!


Has anyone seen the shot of Willie G. standing beside the bike that was tagged 1903-1904? I tried posting it but it's not a good night for me, my computer and pictures!!! I guess I'll have to read the instructions for posting larger pictures.......

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by 23JDCA 808
1903 Harley. This picture is from the July&August 2003 AARP magazine. It was a fluff piece by Elinor Nauen, and had nothing to do with really old Harleys. http://www.97330.com/1903_Harley.html
...bill (ps. why do my comments to this site take forever to load and are unsucessful half of the time?)

That's the SNO#1 bike, or as I call it the "Ray Schlee bike" (he restored it that way without fenders which looks like an early 1905 model).

This is the same job that was called a "1904" for decades by the Factory and then became a "1903-1904" by 1959 and more recently a "1903" and lastly the very first Harley ever produced! At least until another very first Harley ever produced came along (the one in Willie G.'s book) which we can refer as SNO#2.

It gets rather confusing at times doesn't it?

==================

PS: Try clearing your browser's cache. That's what I get told anyhow when things slow down....

[HarleyCreation]

Re: Re: ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO ENTER!

Originally posted by 23JDCA 808

Note that they didn't ask for a 1903 or 1904. ...bill

Fancy that!

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by c.o.


Has anyone seen the shot of Willie G. standing beside the bike that was tagged 1903-1904? I tried posting it but it's not a good night for me, my computer and pictures!!! I guess I'll have to read the instructions for posting larger pictures.......

Which photo is that?

I don't know that I've seen it....

[HarleyCreation]

Abandon all Hope ye who enter!

Originally posted by jurassic
if you look close at the new factory lineup photos it appears that the 1908 is the real missing link.notice that it has a harley front fork,like the 1909 ,not the sager type.also the cylinder looks more like 1909,quite a few less fins.and it has a toolbox.if this is representive of a 1908 then all these 1907's in the world ,that we have been calling 1908's,may not be.or could it be a very late 1908?? which just goes to show that harley was continually changing no matter what the date.either way this bike appears to be one of the last strap tanks.we all know that 1909 numbers start at 2500,so if we could find the vin number on the factories 1908 then all these questions could maybe be answered by counting backwards.

Sure, you can go that route trying to explain the discrepencies on the Factory collection bikes by concocting elaborate theories and miraculous mid-year model changes and equally oddball throwbacks.

You wouldn't be the first to take that path.....

Okay then, try to make sense of this:

The Factory collection 1906 model is SN#2130 and the 1908 is #2194.

Can you devise a theory to explain two full model years but just a 64 bike serial number spread?

Good luck!

Or, you can conclude like silentgreyfellow and some others of us have that the Factory collection jobs are "parts bikes" and do NOT make sense because they are NOT original production but cobbled together from various years and therefore cannot be relied upon to be accurate.

Once a person gets over their "awe" the answer to these Factory collection mysteries is simple and logical. They are parts bikes built up from "old junk" after 1919!

At that point one sees the light and the path to true knowledge becomes clear. And that is by going back and only using ORIGINAL photos, drawings, and model descriptions along with the only surviving 1908s that we believe are correct and original: the truly magnificent #2037 & 2042.

For 1907, 1906, or 1905 model Harleys we don't have that luxury as there doesn't seem to be any ORIGINAL bikes from those years still in existence (at least that have surfaced so far.)

PS: Your mention of the cylinder finning is interesting and Earl has seen that too if it's the same thing I'm thinking it is. We need a larger shot of that motor...

[Earl]

Originally posted by HarleyCreation


That's the SNO#1 bike, or as I call it the "Ray Schlee bike" (he restored it that way without fenders which looks like an early 1905 model).

This is the same job that was called a "1904" for decades by the Factory and then became a "1903-1904" by 1959 and more recently a "1903" and lastly the very first Harley ever produced!

It gets rather confusing at times doesn't it?

Look in "At the Creation", the photo on page 11.

I believe the photo is showing the very same machine.

HarleyCreation, from the photo ID can you give us some information about when and where that photo was taken?

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Earl


Look in "At the Creation", the photo on page 11.

I believe the photo is showing the very same machine.

HarleyCreation, from the photo ID can you give us some information about when and where that photo was taken?

So you think that bike on page 11 in At the Creation is SNO#1?

Interesting theory!

It sort of makes sense and here's why...

The photo on page 11 appears to be an early shot of a rigid fork strap-tank Harley in front of the Woodshed factory circa 1905-1906, but this is actually another Fun House illusion or mirage!

From the background and mods to the Woodshed we know the the photo was taken much later, after 1918, when the Woodshed had been moved from grandpa Davidson's home at the corner of Highland & 38th and down the block to the Red Brick Factory on Chestnut.

That's about the same time (1919) when Harley was advertising for early models. Maybe this is one of the first bikes they scored and fixed up then made this nice staged photo of it!

Now Earl, get out your microscope and tell us why you think this bike here is SNO#1?

[Harleyson's]

Woodshed Winter 1929

Friends,

here is a Snapshoot from the Woodshed, Winter 1929
The Pic was made by Paul Weyres (Factory-Racer from Germany)


Bilder hochladen



Fritz

www.harleysons.de

[Harleyson's]

Woodshed Winter 1929

[Harleyson's]

Harley-Davidson Antique Bike Room 1908

Here some other Pics of the Harley-Davidson 1908 from the Antique Bike Room. The Pictures are around 10 Years old.


http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/1qq5-1c-jpg.html (*)
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/1qq5-1d-jpg.html (*)
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/1qq5-1e-jpg.html (*)
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/1qq5-1f-jpg.html (*)
http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/1qq5-1g-jpg.html (*)

[Harleyson's]

Better View 1908 in 1959

http://www.bilder-hochladen.net/files/1qq5-1j-jpg.html (*)

[jurassic]

missing link

WOW,thank you to our friends in germany.a picture is worth a thousand words.i agree with most of the thought that the line up strap tanks are mostly made up,but i'll bet anybody even money that the 1908 is an original paint virgin.this bike would be easily come by for sure in 1919,and in this condition.we all know how harley "restored" the earlier models.quite poorly.they would never have been able to restore the 1908 to look like that,nor could they today.herb,surely you examined this bike in your research?or at least documented the serial number?this bike is the real deal ,and could tell us volumes.and even if this bike were "pieced together junk",does the serial number on the cylinder match the cases?.if so then at least the engine is correct.and the cylinder is most definatly of the latest strap tank style ,as is the cylinder on parhams 1908,serial number 2177.we all know that the 1909 cylinder exhaust port is completely different.this is a strap tank cylinder that looks like a 1909.chasing the paper trail is fine ,but chasing the parts trail,and the evolution of existing "real" parts is the only way to truely figure out this riddle.whether the parts be a single cylinder ,a case or frame ,or a whole cobbled up bike,every part tells a story.the designers went forward,not backward,and these small changes can still be observed in their work.PLEASE DOES ANYONE HAVE THE SERIAL NUMBER TO THIS 1908 MOTORCYCLE.we are very close to figuring this out.