1936 el- value?

[Rollo]

I am more than aware of the 36 VL paint scheme as I have two 36 VLH"s but thanks for including that and the clarification. Thanks!

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA#12766

[46EL]

The motor number model designation (in this case E or EL) was not reflected in any chassis feature. Those letter differences only described variations inside the engine as Chris suggested. Chassis and gearing differences were reflected in the MODEL letter designation on the order blank. Usually this was the same as the motor number letter designation--but not always! (There was a MODEL ES, but no motors were stamped ES). For those reasons, the classic H-D numbering system are not true VINs (Vehicle Identification Numbers). They are "MINs"--Motor Identification Numbers. Big difference.

Sort of a wacky system but that's how they did it.

There is a well known AMCA member who resides on Cape Cod who had a 36ES and he more than once told me his cases were actually stamped 36ES. I never did see the bike but I really cannot believe that he made it up. With only 26 made from what the experts say I personally believe they were made/stamped ES, but finding one is like hitting the Powerball Lottery.

[silentgreyfello]

Yes, it is a wide stripe and it's edged with a pin stripe. It's about as wide as the stripes used on pre '33 Harley tanks. I would also mask and spray but Harley used a brush. Would you say that your 1915 Silent Grey Fellow tanks, with it's wide stripes, was two toned? I wouldn't
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Good point... Agreed

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear All, when do we get to see the engine number of that 36EL for sale? These bikes are being actively faked, so no-one should be thinking of laying out money without a detailed inspection of the machine.

[Chris Haynes]

Dear All, when do we get to see the engine number of that 36EL for sale? These bikes are being actively faked, so no-one should be thinking of laying out money without a detailed inspection of the machine.

No one should buy one without having someone who knows all the weird parts involved with a 36 examine it.

[silentgreyfello]

I'm no expert but the tanks should be two tone in that color combination from what I have seen. I almost bought one in the exact combination a few years ago. Guy was asking $125K but had hard time getting that and ended up selling at $95K

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA#12766

So, let me get this straight... You almost paid $100k for a motorcycle that you had no idea what the correct paint scheme should be for that year? And you currently own (2) 1936 vlh's? I would recommend Bruce Palmers book to you!

[Rollo]

That's right but it was before I had Palmers books. I now have both editions!

Tom (Rollo) Hardy
AMCA #12766

[HarleyCreation]

There is a well known AMCA member who resides on Cape Cod who had a 36ES and he more than once told me his cases were actually stamped 36ES. I never did see the bike but I really cannot believe that he made it up. With only 26 made from what the experts say I personally believe they were made/stamped ES, but finding one is like hitting the Powerball Lottery.

It's possible he had such a motor, but that doesn't mean it was original factory.

Lower compression "E" marked motors were used in the ES model and also in E solo models. That's all H-D cared about. Motors were built and stamped ahead of time solely based on whether they were higher (EL) or lower (E) compression. Then motors were put into the motor stock room. When orders came in, the motors were trucked to mc assembly. Based on whether it was a solo model E job, or a sidecar model ES, the desired motor sprocket was installed on these E stamped motors obtain proper final gearing. It made no sense to stamp motors ES since both lower compression E and ES models used the exact same motor except for the easily swapped motor sprocket. Why complicate matters?

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Herbert, I'd never say never where Harley was concerned. 35VDS1371 is in the Alcazar military museum in Toledo, Spain, as an original paint survivor of the 1936 Spanish Civil War siege. I'm guessing it was known to be going as an export order to Franco and was stamped accordingly at the factory. It also has the export 1935 olive green/black paint scheme on the mudguards but the 1934 pattern on the tank, perhaps showing how Harley dealt with last season parts in the first few weeks of the new model year by unloading them onto export bikes.

[46EL]

It's possible he had such a motor, but that doesn't mean it was original factory.

Lower compression "E" marked motors were used in the ES model and also in E solo models. That's all H-D cared about. Motors were built and stamped ahead of time solely based on whether they were higher (EL) or lower (E) compression. Then motors were put into the motor stock room. When orders came in, the motors were trucked to mc assembly. Based on whether it was a solo model E job, or a sidecar model ES, the desired motor sprocket was installed on these E stamped motors obtain proper final gearing. It made no sense to stamp motors ES since both lower compression E and ES models used the exact same motor except for the easily swapped motor sprocket. Why complicate matters?

...........Like I mentioned before, I was only saying what I was told. If someone was interested in doing the research about that specific motorcycle go for it. I've had a little more than a few 36 crumbs go through my fingers over the years and looked at a lot of bikes. I've seen a lot of different variations from what was published and what was folk lore over the years. And that goes for many other HD Models and Indian also. I'm not trying to denounce anyone or change history. And when it comes down to it I am more interested in seeing people having fun and enjoying what they have and cherish. If judging is your thing that is OK with me also as we live in a democracy. Just not my cup of tea and never was and most probably will never be. respectfully, 46EL

[HarleyCreation]

Those pesky sidecar "S" stamped motors!

Guys,

It's true that with Harley-Dee it's risky to say NEVER. I've said that myself. And it does seem that some sidecar marked "S" motors may exist. But these don't conform to H-D's own numbering system and that's what I'm referring to. Not that they don't exist, but that by H-D's own accounting they should not exist. No judgement. Just observation.

Let's take the above described "34VDS1371" motor number that Steve saw on the Alcazar museum bike in Spain. I accept that. However, I have in front of me a photocopy of an orginal H-D "Layout of 1935 Motorcycle Models & Model Numbers" issued by the Engineering Department, dated June 11, 1935. Documentation from the hog's mouth, so to speak. This states that "Model No. 35VDS (74 cu. in. Sidecar Twin) Assem. Pt. No. XL-11" used engines with motor numbers stamped "35VD1000" and up. This was the exact same system they used every year with all sidecar models. The "S" did NOT appear in the motor number by their own admission. They say this over and over, year after year. It's gotta be true.

Therefore, if these two "S" marked motor numbers do exist--and I'm not saying they don't--then there must another explanation for the discrepency. What could that be? I'm not sure. Maybe the "S" was stamped on the motor in error and it got by. We've seen motor numbers stamped upside down, sideways, etc. Or is there some other explanation?

I'm not criticizing anyone, just trying to give the most accurate information about the motor numbering system used by sometimes wacky but always loveable Harley-Davidson. By the factory's own reckoning, no sidecar stamped S motor "should" exist.

[Chris Haynes]

Dear Herbert, I'd never say never where Harley was concerned. 35VDS1371 is in the Alcazar military museum in Toledo, Spain, as an original paint survivor of the 1936 Spanish Civil War siege. I'm guessing it was known to be going as an export order to Franco and was stamped accordingly at the factory. It also has the export 1935 olive green/black paint scheme on the mudguards but the 1934 pattern on the tank, perhaps showing how Harley dealt with last season parts in the first few weeks of the new model year by unloading them onto export bikes.

Not knowing what was going through the minds in the MoCo in 1936 could the S be for Spain? Like the XLJ models for Jakarta or the WLC for Canada?

[Steve Slocombe]

And don't forget the few RLEX and RLDX model small twins for Germany. One 1934 RLDX bike was built, which amazingly survives in original teak red and silver paint. It has all those letters stamped in the engine number and is fitted with a Bosch headlamp, probably from original.

[vph-d]

Chris,
That is an interesting question...
VPH-D

[kiwi tibbs]

Yes, it is a wide stripe and it's edged with a pin stripe. It's about as wide as the stripes used on pre '33 Harley tanks. I would also mask and spray but Harley used a brush. Would you say that your 1915 Silent Grey Fellow tanks, with it's wide stripes, was two toned? I wouldn't
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I think that silver stripe is possible with a wide mac stripe brush.mac striping brushes.jpg