Buyer beware

[46EL]

Picture a three legged dog lifting a rear leg to wizz on a servi-car solid wheel. The dog would have to have both its rear legs right? So could a dog balance one one front and one rear leg? Think about it?

[Robert Luland]

I'm going to have to consult my cad program!

[aka HAWG]

hummmmm is there not an AMCA event coming up very very soon as well as other motorcycle related events- maybe the said seller is on route to this/these event(s) and may not be concerned with answering post ebay sales questions while driving

aka HAWG

[stbryson]

[QUOTE=Chris Haynes;129153]

This should have been settled between men with a simple email exchange between the parties.QUOTE]

That would be nice if they would respond.

Hello,

So, the auction ended at 19:26 on Sunday, February 24th, and you started posting on the motorcycle forums at 17:22 on Saturday, March 1st. The E-Bay listing clearly states "We try our best to respond to your questions in a timely manner, however, this site is not managed 24/7 so your patience is appreciated!". Sounds you you really made a concerted effort to contact the seller to resolve the problem before posting on the forums.

And whether or not you perceive your post to be "bashing" of the seller, it seems obvious from the majority of the posts on both forums that most posters perceive your actions that way. You could have served your "noble purpose" of informing people to be careful when buying parts on E-Bay just as well by just posting the pictures without naming the seller, since the seller's E-Bay listing aslso states "Negative, or neutral feedback will not resolve a problem, nor find the buyer receiving a refund. We always strive to help in any way we can and the Golden Rule applies. Respect and kindness are always reciprocated." Doesn't seem like you gave the seller much of a chance to correct the problem. I would guess that you would want to be given a chance to make things right first if the roles were reversed. But I suppose you never make mistakes.

I would think that the seller's best response would be to send you a refund, tell you to keep the part, and block you from ever bidding on their auctions again.

Steve Bryson

[ricmoran]

The online auctions are rightfully a buyer beware proposition no matter how one looks at it. That is unless of course the part is new, never been used. No system on earth will prevent poor descriptions and photographs.

Problem is when something like this is 50 or 100 bucks, taking all kinds of images, the time it takes to post them, proof reading is a PITA. Even posting images on forums is a problem if time is not on ones side.

The bigger problem is trying to win at auctions, authentic parts at reasonable prices. Then getting the authentic part in your hand that ends up not meeting the buyers expectations.

Not so much for the fact that a buyer reads and rereads the ad, looks at the images several times and then decides "will this work for me or am I wasting my time?" In this case I think that this is where Chris is, and also letting people know that to be more aware of looking at the parts to see if it adds up and matches the parts description, regardless of the seller.

As the saying goes, one mans junk is anothers treasure holds a lot of water when buying through auctions like E bay, but is more of a problem when one persons junk turns out to be buyers junk too.

Frankly, I am suprised at WTT description not matching what the part condition represents and that I think is where Chris is with this, that and wanting to let folks know to pay close attention to auctions description. I do not believe one instance that Chris means to disparage anyone at WTT, but to be aware of what can happen with poor or misleading descriptions are used. I pay through paypal and pay immediately to insure the seller will work to close the transaction ASAP. When it goes the other way, retruns need to be made and everything else related, it becomes frustrating.

I can envision when the ad was written, one says to the other, you remember this part? The other says yes, that was a new off the shelf OEM part as I recall it. Then the other says, yea, it even had the original packing paper with it too, that's great I'll list it as such. Hey wait, here is a dent, whaddaya think? The other says, that is typical for shelf wear (whatever the hell shelf wear is?) as someone probablly dropped it. Think it'll pass muster the other says? Then the answer is, "shoot, that will sell for only 50 bucks or so, no worries, list it as such WITH SHELF WEAR.

So WTF is shelf wear????? That statement alone.....I'd be wanting definition from the seller what that is supposed to mean.

Not trying to project what actually happened or apologize for anyone, but not listing this as a used moderately damaged part, look here, see the ding? That is what is stinking up the gym. Would it prevent me form buying again from WTT? No, not at all, but would make me really look closer at any sheet metal they may be selling through auction that I have the hots for.

[T. Cotten]

Chris Haynes has once again stuck his head in his posterior orifice and made a worldwide, public denunciation of a fellow motorcycle guy, ....

Well, there you go Chris, straight from a master at it.

..... and CAIMag, where Chris posted the identical complaint and was also roundly dissed

Don't feel bad, Chris, EVERYBODY gets disrespected on CAImag.
The forum owner even "dissed" the First Amendment!

I'm not even registered for ebay, Folks.
It should be obvious why.

....Cotten

[Sargehere]

I in no way implied that anyone was Doo Doo. My whole point was to warn people to look carefully at items listed. It appears that I didn't look close enough at this one. Instead people accuse me of bashing, which I haven't done. I have always said I expect a good end to this. I was only using it as an example of poor photography, omitted information, and misused terms like NOS.

When you posted the entire Ebay listing you identified the entity that YOU WERE TREATING AS DOO-DOO. Have you no shame? Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency? Or just no sense?

[46EL]

I do not recall anyone here asking for a Public Service Announcement or a tutorial on bidding on ebay auctions and who and what to watch for.
This all goes back to what was happening on this site when people posted links to motorcycle auctions and everyone had a great time picking everything and everyone apart. And that is NOT what this Club is about believe it or not.
And Members who had the right to list parts for sale here had to deal with an individual who took it upon himself to be the self appointed judge and jury as to how much you could sell something for.
Maybe a Moderator should step in here again and nip it in the bud like last time. Make up some rules so something like this does not happen again.
We are all grown men old enough to own a motorcycle and make our own decisions in life as to what we buy and what we bid on.
And if we make a mistake that is how we learn. Personally I myself do not need anyone to hold my hand when it comes buying anything in life.
And if you feel the need to do something for Society go to your local Elementry School and join a program where you can donate some of your time to help small children who are having problems with reading. My wife does that and you would not believe how rewarding it can be to see a 6 year old feel better about himself because he reads better and feels better about himself. 46el

[T. Cotten]

Speaking of Public Service Announcements, Folks,

Why are we only allowed to disparage vendors?

Why cannot vendors warn other vendors about outright "stiffs"?

(Don't forget, ebay ain't the whole world, even though some of you are obsessed with it.)

The industry is just as important to vintage motorcycling as the consumer, and it should be within the scope of the AMCA to foster the welfare of both.

....Cotten

[46EL]

I believe there is a VENDORS RATED section on this site? I would hope if you had a bad experience and after you made a phone call and enough time elapsed and the issue was not resolved, then maybe get ebay and or paypal involved through the process they offer to buyers and avoid any BS on this website. In my opinion the Vendors rated section here is no place for any Public Service Announcements and or Tutorials or dirty laundry. If you have been stiffed or have a problem with a Club Member I believe there is a Board member who might try to mediate a problem between two Club Members AFTER ALL OTHER Avenues like ebay and paypal buyer protection have been exhausted? I'm sure Board members have better things to do than fool with a 58 dollar ebay auction especially when one of the parties doesn't have the sense to pick up the phone and try to resolve the issue himself like a grown man. I myself personally filed a complaint about something I saw as seriously wrong and filed a formal complaint in writing to a Board Member and received a phone call the same day from them. The problem was corrected very soon after that. 46EL.

[T. Cotten]

46EL!

You, too, have ebay tunnelvision.
Not all commerce is on ebay, nor are all stiffs AMCA members!

Please review discussions upon the Vendors Rated forum, and you will see that vendors are fair game, while customers are sacred cows.

There would be no AMCA without the industry that supports it, and vintage motorcycling across the globe.
And I don't mean ebay!

Customers can bad-mouth vendors who aren't even here to defend themselves, yet vendors are not allowed to alert other vendors of out-and-out deadbeats.

....Cotten

[46EL]

46EL!

You, too, have ebay tunnelvision.
Not all commerce is on ebay, nor are all stiffs AMCA members!

Please review discussions upon the Vendors Rated forum, and you will see that vendors are fair game, while customers are sacred cows.

There would be no AMCA without the industry that supports it, and vintage motorcycling across the globe.
And I don't mean ebay!

Customers can bad-mouth vendors who aren't even here to defend themselves, yet vendors are not allowed to alert other vendors of out-and-out deadbeats.

....Cotten

Sad to say Cotten but ebay is my life. It is how I pay the bills. If I had to rely on swap meet sales to pay for those expenses i'd be belly up by now so I haven't bothered even trying it seriously for years now.
Getting stiffed is something I have dealt with in the past. Some people who I thought I was good friends with even stiffed me and i've learned some good lessons. My outgoing Christmas Card list gets smaller and smaller every year.
Like one guy I know well says; "The only friends I have in life are in my wallet and they are green". No matter if you are selling parts or driving a delivery truck the customer is always right. And sometimes you have to be thick skinned in this world when it comes to dealing with it. 46

[T. Cotten]

46EL!

I do not rely on swap meets either; I am not a parts monger.

I am a dirty fingernails person, offering exclusive services,
so ebay is only something that customers link me to for an opinion.
It would be a conflict of interest if I played that game.
The junk shows up at my door anyway.

My point, if it is not clear, is that the AMCA defeats itself by promoting rancor and mistrust with Vendors Rated rants, but fails to support vendors with a service that really would make a difference.

Pure and simple, I was forbidden to post my 'stiffs list'.
After emails and letters fail, I should at least hope to warn my fellow vendors, for the common good.

....Cotten

[46EL]

I used to worry about everyone else at one time.
And when I did go out of my way to help or warn someone it was never appreciated.
Sad to say but nowadays I worry about myself.
And I let Karma take care of whoever deserves the Karma they get in life.
And I have seen some pretty good Karma delivered on some silver platters.
Every dog has his day and some dogs end up having a couple of days.
And I have had a day or two myself as I am far from perfect, very far. 46EL

[T. Cotten]

Then let me put it this way, 46EL,

If we can do little good, then let us at very least stop doing harm.

The Vendors Rated notion is fatally flawed with inequities, and should be omitted from the format.

....Cotten