AMCA Forum is a backwater of the internet

[Ross]

Interesting discussion for sure...first off I would like to thank Mike for all his hard work.It's clear that all he wants is to make the forum the best it can be..I have been on from the start and go each day..As my computer skills lack (and typing even more) I tend to read more than post. Several years ago I sent in a lot of pictures of things and Cory O would post for me, but sadly he hasn't been online with us for some time now...Come on back Cory O, we miss all your good research..Forums are being heavily competed against these days..(just ask Buzz C), Facebook has grown by a gazzillion percent and Instagram had gone from a few hundred to 10's of thousands...Lots to keep the tec savy busy.. I still hit the forum pretty much every day and miss the day to day reports of the Joe Gardellla builds prior, to his first Cannonball..He was on for months and I never missed a report before going to work...Not sure I have the answer but those names that I recognize still on the forum have helped many, many, old bike restorers...Like Eric has stated, I was comfortable with the old setting but have adapted...I am told that if we hadn't made the change when we did we would have been in even bigger trouble....The software change had many facets to it for the size our organization had become and the forum was just one part of a system that manages a club in the 12,000 member range...So many people have helped me with my restorations and I may never have finished them with out the Forum users help..Spread the word as it still works for me but I agree," the more the merrier.".

[Steve Swan]

I've been watching this thread with interest. i'll keep my comments brief.

1. Realistically, it's impossible for this forum to be all things to all people who own or "specialize" in a particular brand or particular model or particular year of motorcycle. For that and any number of other reasons there are people who do not belong to the AMCA.

2. Electronic mediums for information sharing have become seemingly boundless from the days when we wrote letters and made phone calls to chase down parts or drove hundred's and even thousand's of miles to meet a particular individual or attend an annual meet hoping against hope to find the part we needed.

3. Sharing information electronically is the norm, like it or not. Different forms of electronic information sharing have distinctly different uses for different reasons for as many people who find these different means of communication that best suit what they want to convey or learn.

4. When electronic forums came out, they were waay cool. i remember when facebook came out and i thought what a crock 'o s--t and now i am active on the JD Facebook forum with more than 3,300 members worldwide. i will add, it is highly unlikely that i will ever ingest twitters, tiktoks and pringles or whatever the latest gizmo's are.

5. I never considered getting involved with JD Facebook until Yahoo shut down their forums, specifically the JD Yahoo Group, and coincidentally also around that same time i became somewhat dispirited as interest in things JD seemed to be dying off on this beloved forum that fellow members were so helpful to me.

6. It seems that that AMCA is all inclusive of all machines that turn 35 years old year after year; interests of the populations of antique motorcycle interest is broad and expansive. It seems if specific needs are to be met and someone wants more active participation about their particularly specific niche of interest, it only stands to reason that that person will look for a group of like-minded people for whatever marque or model of motorcycle they interested in so they can give and receive the information they are actively interested in rather than hope they get an answer from someone who may or may not actively participate on any given forum.

7. One thing i have personally learned is the imprudence of badmouthing something that i have no experience with or dislike, e.g., historically, "Jap-crap" motorcycles and more apropos is, perhaps, Facebook. I am not by any means a proponent of Facebook, on the other hand, like any other tool in my tool chests and equipment in my shop, Facebook serves a purpose and has its use. I've learned it does little good to resist the times and at the same time i can participate in what i choose. Or not.

I realize my comments may be of little help and are my version of reality where so many versions of reality exist.

A huge shout out to Mike and the work he does for this forum. I know first hand what it is like to manage a forum. It's something everyone is interested in and few people actively contribute to and participate with.

“We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.”



Konstantin Josef Jireček

[Green Indian]

Thanks to all of my fellow AMCA club members for their efforts and contributions big and small in making the site and forum the best place for antique motorcyclists in my humble opinion. I too have gotten used to the "new look" of the site. I wish I could add more than my sincere gratitude but honestly I can not think of anything that has not already been said. Keep up the good work everyone.

[Ross]

Steve and Green Indian,great comments...There is hope for all us old gear heads..I'm not sure but as of today I think I may have written more letters with stamps than emails...by tomorrow that may change..Stay well all my old motorcycle friends...

[pfindlay]

Steve Swan: Thanks for your many JD restoration posts. They are still "go-to" information for those of us with JDs.

In my opinion, more threads like Steve's would be the sort of thing that would attract and involve more members. But not everyone has the mechanical skills and / or the tech skills to bring it all together like that.

Peter

[BoschZEV]

I realize my comments may be of little help and are my version of reality where so many versions of reality exist.

An important correction to what you wrote is there is only one reality. Although people can have incorrect understandings of what is true and what isn't, that doesn't alter the fact there is only one reality. Ideally, having an understanding of reality will result in making better decisions.

It seems if specific needs are to be met and someone wants more active participation about their particularly specific niche of interest, it only stands to reason that that person will look for a group of like-minded people for whatever marque or model of motorcycle they interested in so they can give and receive the information they are actively interested in rather than hope they get an answer from someone who may or may not actively participate on any given forum.

People find, or found, different sites (e.g. CAIMAG, Yahoo, Photobucket, Facebook, etc.) more or less useful for their own particular purposes, but the issue at hand is the fact the AMCA site has, for example, seven forums for Harley-Davidsons and four for Indians, but only 0.1% of AMCA members are posting here. If the site were useful, people would post here, and if people posted here, the site would be useful.

If it doesn't matter where people post useful information as long as it can be easily found, it doesn't matter if the AMCA site remains with low traffic. However, as the disappearance of CAIMAG, Yahoo, Photobucket and others show, commercial sites depend on commercial considerations to continue to exist (or exist in forms useful for us), whereas an organization like AMCA that has been around for almost 70 years is likely to remain around. That's why it would be in the best interest of many more than 0.1% of AMCA members if useful information were posted on this site instead of ones that have a smaller probability of continuing to exist in the future. But, how to accomplish that is an open question.

[Steve Swan]

BoschZEV, i wholeheartedly agree with you one reality exists and on the other hand, given the nature of our human condition, reality is that which lies within our perceptual grasp. A study of remote history long past not to mention more recent history underscores the fact that many people live and will defend to the death their "incorrect understandings" of what they choose to believe is true.

Agreed, i also believe the AMCA is here to stay because the AMCA serves overall the purpose of promoting antique motorcycles; in fact, all motorcycles 35 years and older. In this light, there is no other organization that i am aware of that does a better job than the AMCA. The AMCA as an organization is one thing. Given the AMCA's all inclusive position, it seems reasonable that the AMCA's electronic mediums are likely more affected than the overall membership numbers of the AMCA. Case in point is the foreign motorcycle section of the forum; with exception to British bikes, the makes from other countries have pretty limited forum activity. There was time, and i well remember it, when only American made bikes were worthy of consideration within the League of AMCA gentlemen; foreign marques, while recognized and not excluded did not enjoy nor were lavished the attention of their American cousins. Subsequently, AMCA leadership recognized in order for membership numbers to at least remain stable and ideally increase, a number of changes were made making the AMCA more inclusive thereby more welcoming to a wider membership base with more diverse interests in any motorcycle 35 years and older.

What i am getting at, within the context of what the forum can do to attract more activity is to continue to be welcoming, especially when a new member introduces themselves, and especially so when existing members have anything to offer in terms of their experiences with a particular motorcycle a new member brings to the forum thereby strengthening the welcome the newly introduced member receives to perhaps becoming an enduring relationship. All things considered that i have mentioned, i believe the the forum is mostly fine the way it is. Forum activity or lack thereof does not reflect AMCA membership numbers. On the other hand, any new ideas, tweaks or improvements to existing topics or features of the forum can be no less than beneficial to promoting and encouraging activity on the forum.

Regardless of the amount of activity on the forum and how it serves me, i do not think i am alone in this thought to say that this forum does and will continue to provide excellent information not found elsewhere on shop and machine practices invaluable to any one who takes the time to share about and learn from the experiences of others. For this reason, i check in at least once daily for the opportunity to benefit from what is shared by fellow members. While my threads are not an exemplar in contrast to some of the fabulous threads of other members, i share what i can on the forum as a show of appreciation and loyalty to the AMCA and fellow forum members.

In closing, A huge shout out to Mike and the work he does for OUR forum.

[chuckthebeatertruck]

but only 0.1% of AMCA members are posting here. If the site were useful, people would post here, and if people posted here, the site would be useful.

This is very true . . .and it's also true that an extreme minority of AMCA members participate in the judging program.

Yet, as a club, we highly value what judging teaches us about our old motorbikes and how it encourages the industry to improve the reproductions they offer. As such, we choose to supplement the judging program far beyond the fees charged for participation or the number of people directly impacted by the judging program. This includes multiple mentions in every magazine -- at least one column dedicated to judging in every magazine -- constant encouragement to try the judging program or sign up as a judge -- and a printed listed of who got what award at each meet. The end result is that many people know of the judging program and benefit from it . . .even if they don't participate. They also benefit from "correct" information about their bikes shared in articles, forums, and books.

Imagine if we put in 1/2 that effort, as a club, to building an online forum?

Here's what I mean --- grab an issue of the membership magazine. See where the forum is mentioned, promoted, or linked back to? It is very hard to find.

By comparison, I know about virtual judging, individual websites, marque websites and the AMCA facebook page because those DO get mentioned more than once in the magazine and from issue to issue.

So, part of it is making the forum better known and promoted to AMCA members . . . as well as more content/discussion.

And a big tell tale is how many people have said something like: "my posts aren't as good as . . ." or "I don't want to make a fool of myself . . . " and so on. Until that attitude slackens; people will continue to read instead of post.

[Steve Swan]

Steve Swan: Thanks for your many JD restoration posts. They are still "go-to" information for those of us with JDs.

In my opinion, more threads like Steve's would be the sort of thing that would attract and involve more members. But not everyone has the mechanical skills and / or the tech skills to bring it all together like that.

Peter

Thanks Peter for your kind words. imho, one of the exemplars of a build thread was Kevin's build of "Patience," his #97 Cannonball build. I don't know where he has gone, but his build was one that I learned a lot from.

[T. Cotten]

All bets are off, Folks,...

If you think there is one 'reality', especially when it comes to vintage motorcycles!

Consensus is compiled mythology: Legacy, some legends, and occasional lies. Every enthusiast's 'reality' is a sum of information available, good or bad.

Our task is to expand enthusiasts' realities, and hope they enjoy it.

...Cotten

[aumick10]

I have to agree with Bosch ZEV with his description of reality, There is only one reality, everything else is a "Perceived reality" shaped by whatever information a person has access to, understands, or perceives in their own way. With so much information/Disinformation available in this information age, I find it hard to state what the reality of anything is. All i can say is what my perception of reality is based on gathering a range of information, then have a "scientific guess"
Sorry if this is a bit philosophical for the forum.

I have been following this thread with much interest. I have built machines all my life, so any mechanical issues i come across are easy to work out.
When i was about to retire a few years ago, i brought some JD projects to keep me busy.
As i started going through what i had, and what was not year correct, i joined the AMCA and started using the virtual library and forum.

It didn't take me long to realize that the published information was incomplete in some cases, or occasionally, some complete BS that someone thought was correct.(Guilty)
I quickly realized two things, Research everything i could and ask questions on the forum .Most of my novice questions were answered on the forum.
Most models after 1930 are well documented by books like Palmers books, however there seems to be a lot less from 1930 and earlier.

My search for the correct year by year ignition systems is one example, as my projects had parts from every year possible. I compiled this information into a document, with parts photos, and help from members here, and others. Unfortunately, this document is too big to upload to the forum, so it is unpublished so far.

The idea of a technical section appeals to me, but i think it has some pro's and con's.

I think there is already a technical Forum on this site. I would prefer to see a forum of technical documents, where technical information can be posted and saved, something similar to the Virtual Library, or may be it should become part of the virtual library. This is already only accessible to members, so it may help draw some more activity to that site. If we post technical articles in this forum, and restrict it to members only, it may entice more people to join and use the forum. Unfortunately, i don't know if this fits with the AMCA philosophy of keeping information available to everyone.

If we increase the information stored, I expect server size limitations may come into play.
So no solutions proposed, just talking points.

[T. Cotten]

So who determines this singular 'reality', Folks?

AMCA judges?

That's inviting.

....Cotten

[aumick10]

Heads its correct, tails it isn't!
The more information and documents you have, the more likely you are to be correct.

[BoschZEV]

It didn't take me long to realize that the published information was incomplete in some cases, or occasionally, some complete BS that someone thought was correct.

It turns out I've manage to assemble what is arguably the world's largest private collection of English-language motorcycle books, and over the past two years, along with my co-curator from the Guggenheim's 'The Art of the Motorcycle', we created 'The Motorcycle: Design, Art, Desire' that will be running through April 26 at Brisbane's Gallery of Modern Art.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...Erru2dKfT3cjw2

In writing the book of the same title to accompany this exhibition, published in late 2020 by Phaidon Press, I made scores of trips back and forth to my library to check facts on the 100 machines we have in the exhibition.

https://www.amazon.com/Motorcycle-De.../dp/1838661638

Although I have literally shelves full of Harley-Davidson books, it was by far the most difficult marque to find accurate information on. Most of those books are fact-free, where "facts" are listed, often they are obviously incorrect, and often those "facts" were then propagated through subsequent books by other authors. This highlights the need for actual facts to be unearthed and presented in a location where they are widely accessible.

I compiled this information into a document, with parts photos, and help from members here, and others. Unfortunately, this document is too big to upload to the forum, so it is unpublished so far.

On another site I documented my rebuild of the 1928 Ariel I rode in the 2018 Cannonball, and I've continued that thread as I've re-rebuilt it after that cross-country ride.

https://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbt...l-c#Post691207

The Word document containing the posts in that thread sits at 482 pages, so it is by far the most comprehensive "shop manual" in existence for a 1928 Ariel.

Although not many people ever will own or rebuild one of these machines, the information in that thread would be invaluable to the few who will. Unfortunately, there's no way to know what will happen to the web version of that information once the person who owns and operates the site where it is located is no longer with us. It would be nice if there were a way to ensure the information would remain available in the future, even if very few people would make use of it.

Related to the "backwater" theme of this current thread, within the next week or so my thread on the rebuild of a 1928 Ariel will pass 1 million views. No doubt many of those "views" are by bots, but even the fact that bots find their way to a thread on such an obscure topic on a different site, but don't seem to find their way to threads on the AMCA site, speaks to the solitude of the backwater.

[vph-d]

I'm not a fan of the new look. In addition, I was locked out of the forum and website from Thanksgiving until last week, due to updates. I was locked out about a year ago due to an update. I'm just too lazy to put much effort into getting re-registered, or finding out why I no longer have access.
VPH-D