Indian Motorcycle Parts Foundry Forge Stamping Marks 1949-1951 Verticals

[JTR249]

I would like to know if any of you have information on Indian motorcycle foundry forge stamps that were used by companies under contract for the verticals. Jim Preussner told me that an original marking was an M enclosed in a C. This may have been an original first contracted company to make the accessory center stands for the 149, 249, Warrior and others.
I have also seen an SDF overlapping stamp lettering on vertical side prop stands and other parts such as the shift lever, brake pedal and other engine parts.

Does anyone know what the letters mean?
Is there a source of company information that preserved records of companies under contract?

Thanks.
-JR
AMCA 36450

[JTR249]

I have periodically searched since this last post with no luck. I still think the SDF is an acronym for the foundry which made parts such as the connecting rods, shift levers and cams.
I have attached a photo of a recent find from a set of cases BDI 2088, a 1949 Indian Scout. What you see is the top of the connecting rod arm.

-JR 36540
SDF Foundry Stamp on Connecting Rod top end 249.jpg
Here is a photo of the connecting rod bearings PN 1,190002 in the ORM p.7. Note the stamping here says, FM 1 6 1465 CA. (Now known as Federal Mogul. See the accompanying information sheet in supplemental literature initially created by Wally Skyrman and other people.)
Connecting Rod Bearing Stamp FM.jpg
There is also evident on the inner connecting rod surface beneath the bearing, in reverse due to pressure, something that resembles 84650 OA.

[JTR249]

Indian Vertical Numbered Frame Sections

QUOTE=JTR249;191434]I have periodically searched since this last post with no luck. I still think the SDF is an acronym for the foundry which made parts such as the connecting rods, shift levers and cams.
I have attached a photo of a recent find from a set of cases BDI 2088, a 1949 Indian Scout. What you see is the top of the connecting rod arm.

-JR 36540
[ATTACH=CONFIG]29108[/ATTACH]
Here is a photo of the connecting rod bearings PN 1,190002 in the ORM p.7. Note the stamping here says, FM 1 6 1465 CA.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]29109[/ATTACH]
There is also evident on the inner connecting rod surface beneath the bearing, in reverse due to pressure, something that resembles 84650 OA.

Here is a photo of the accessory center stands used on Indian Verticals. The stamp says CM.

Vertical Accessory Center Stand Trademark CM.jpg

Here is a photo of an Arrow crankcase on the inside.
ADI 1171 Arrow Crancases from SWVC note the stamp of the H and a wing inside the case.jpg

A steel company is currently helping to resolve this knowledge. I will post the results of the search as soon as I learn of what they are able to find.

-JR 36450[/QUOTE]

One question has been recently answered after locating James Sutter's posted Indian Factory Drawings through wrodpress.com. During a search yesterday I was able to locate a draftsman schematic for the vertical rear frame sections. If you look in the photo attached after this message, the frame section has a number stamped into the frame of 1417003. In the schematic, there is also the same number pointing to where this number is found in the frame section. The caption for the photo says "Front and Rear Frame Sections – 253 Warrior (Experimental)."

Perhaps these sections were early developments before there was an attempt to beef up the alleged 8 Road Warrior prototypes?

Here are the photos.
1417003 Rear Frame Section Indian Vertical 1949 to 1951.jpg
Here is my actual frame section number.
1417003 number stamping found on rear frame section 249 sprung.jpg

[JTR249]

Here's a couple more.

-John
36450
[ATTACH=CONFIG]
30201[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=CONFIG]
30202[/ATTACH]
Indian Vertical Brake Cover made by MASON stamped on inside.jpg

[JTR249]

[JTR249]

Numeric Stamps 249 Flywheel also 2088.jpg
Vertical Fork Stamp CM.jpg
Chum-Me Seat Pan number stamp 17 1097 and trademark symbols of pyramids Wet.jpg

[pisten-bully]

Go John! Fascinating to see this history

[1950Panhead]

I have periodically searched since this last post with no luck. I still think the SDF is an acronym for the foundry which made parts such as the connecting rods, shift levers and cams.

SDF is likely Springfield D Foundry, the Springfield library probably has phone books and city directories from the 1940's.
Springfield library - https://www.springfieldlibrary.org/library/

[JTR249]

Thanks to both of you for the encouragement. I had thought the same thing about SDF, though still have not been able to verify the information.
Here is a rough historical chart that I have been able to put together based on talking to people and doing a little online research.
Location Part Company

York, PA Fenders York Corrugating Company
Cincinnati, OH Moto Lamps Electric Auto-Lite
Springfield, MA Magneto (AJ-1 and AJ-2) Edison-Wico Electric Company
Birmingham, United Kingdom Carburetors Amal
Dunkirk, IL Moto Lamp Lenses Indiana Glass Company
Torrington, CT Bearings Torrington Manufacturing
Plainfield, CT Engine Torque Engineering
Redditch, England Valve Springs Herbert Terry & Sons Ltd.
Cincinnati, OH Tail Light (Beehive) Lenses American Automatic Devices (King Bee)
Horn Sparton or Electric Auto-Lite
Generator Delco-Remy
Springfield, MA Pistons, BrakePedals, Shift Lever, Cam Levers, Prop Stands, Kicker Pedals, Springfield Foundry (unconfirmed)
Center Stands, Kick Start Lever, Fork Tubes CM (unknown)
mufflers, headers Nelson Muffler Corporation
Tires Dunlop
Wheel Parts Mason
Fender Brackets
Springs and Spring Covers
Wiring Harness
Rear and Primary Drive chain
Gas Tank
Frame Sections
Handlebars
Rims
Oil Tank
Again, if any of you can help fill in the info, cut and paste it to a Word document and send it as attached in a PM to me so that I can update my records. If I have left out any parts, let me know.
Thanks again.
-JR
36450

[JTR249]

Another dead end in the paper chase. Here is a copy of an email I just received from the State Department of Massachusetts.

"Dear Mr. Robinson,



Thank you for your inquiry. The Massachusetts Archives only collects records created by state government agencies, so unfortunately we don’t have anything from the foundry or the manufacturing company. The Springfield City Library and the Springfield History Museum and Archives might have some useful information. I found that the museum/archives includes some artifacts related to Indian Motorcycles

https://springfieldmuseums.org/about/museum-of-springfield-history/springfield-history-library-archives/



If you haven’t already, I would also recommend trying to get in touch with someone at the Indian Motorcycle’s corporate archives: https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/history/



If you have any other questions in the future, please don’t hesitate to contact us again."



Sincerely,



Caitlin Jones

Head of Reference

Massachusetts Archives

220 Morrissey Blvd.

Boston, MA 02125

617-727-2816 x 244

caitlin.jones@sec.state.ma.us

[pisten-bully]

John, that's actually more than I would have expected from a state government staff person! So the hunt continues...seems like someone, somewhere must have documented foundry marks?

[JTR249]

Yep. Kinda crazy. I already knew the Esta Manthos museum had no information because of prior contact. i thought since the State Department of every state regulates businesses that information would be there. Maybe not in 1949-1951. I'll look into patents again, though I did not have much luck the first time. Still waiting to hear from the steel society organization.
Hope they can help.
-JR

[pisten-bully]

Dunno if you've come across this resource yet, or whether you can even find a copy, but Penton's Foundry List 1949-1950 may give some clues:

7F740101-6B8B-4EEB-9F92-F7B0F9DE4E82.jpeg

[JTR249]

pisten-bully, thank you for the lead. I will see what I can find out.
-JR

[Dkgoz]

Nelson Muffler was in Wisconsin. The current business, Nelson Group, has this bit of history on their website:

Our history traces back to Nelson Muffler which was established in Stoughton, Wisconsin in 1939 in the basement of a Buick garage. Nelson Muffler developed a leading position in the diesel and gas engine markets over the next several years, supplying exhaust mufflers to a wide variety of customers. The business grew rapidly during World War II, supported by increased demand from the U.S. government. This growth financed the construction of a facility in Black River Falls, Wisconsin in 1946. This was followed by the establishment of facilities in Viroqua in 1966 and Arcadia in 1979. Viroqua later moved to a new facility in 1977 and Black River Falls built a new facility in 1994.

dkgoz