Indian Motorcycle Parts Foundry Forge Stamping Marks 1949-1951 Verticals

[indianrob]

It appears that all of my engine cases have that same number cast in. One of them might have the smaller mark as well but I couldn’t be sure. The cam cover also has a part number cast in. I didn’t check the trans cases.

[JTR249]

There were always odd things that you would see in the PNs. For example, undocumented changes, like those reported in the vertical groups parts update list that Wally, Pete and the others created. There are also common things like the last digit of a known part being one more than what is listed in the manual. I have also seen no numbers, however, there is a statement in the opening section of the spare parts book about parts with no number being suited for any model. The stamp I took the photo of has a stamp that appears to be DAC or DA6.
I have never seen this on any other crankcase.
Do your Warrior cases have the stamp above the number? I have no idea what these are.
Thanks.
-JR

[indianrob]

Cast in numbers like that can also be seen inside Scout/Chief/… cases. It was my father’s opinion that these were the Indian part numbers for the unmachined (raw) castings. My Warrior cases also have that number cast in.

[JTR249]

Here's a couple crankcase stamps I have recently seen and wanted to share to see if anyone knows why they would show up on these parts.
They are not on any other crankcases I have had or seen.
DAC Stamp on Vertical Scout Crankcase.JPG
Scout Crankcase Illegible Stamp above PN and P stamp..JPG
-JR

[JTR249]

Just when you think you've seen everything that can be documented you find something else.
Here is a photo of the inside latch of an Indian Vertical rigid frame tool box. The only difference is length of mounting brackets and possibly spacing between them on the box.
On the inside latch I found the stamp for the trademark of Nielson Tool & Die. I thought the word "Corporation" was stamped beneath, then looked closer and found it actually says, "Hartford." Guess that tells you where the factory was located. I found the website that has the old building now in the care of a CT historical preservation organization. I sent them an email requesting information on the history of the company. They said they don't respond to people unless you have an interest in using the structure for some modern purpose!
How's that for preserving history. Another website said Nielson was a company that made metal containers in the mid-forties and that the company lasted up into the 1990s.
Anyway, here is a photo of the name on the original part in oxblood red.
If anyone has information, please contribute.
-JR Trademark Manufacturing Stamp inside the latch of the Indian Vertical Tool Boxes says Nielson Tool and Die Hartford CT..JPG

[JTR249]

Thanks Dave. I have never heard of that directory before.
I will see what I can find out.
-JR

[Dkgoz]

I saw the key, and I was referring to the one foundry stamp that has a big "S" and little "d" and little "f" ....the "S" in the foundry stamp doesn't refer to the key in the book, and doesn't necessarily stand for Springfield...could be "Smith" or "Simpson" or anything else the foundry was named and not a reference to what the book says in the key. But if the castings are steel or malleable iron, then using the book and knowing what they're made of will narrow down the search.

With Indian's financial state at the time and their associations with Brockhouse and others in the UK then who knows, perhaps some 249 parts were cast in the UK!

Pentons Foundry List is a good source of information but another book, The Directory of Steel Foundries in the United States, Canada and Mexico includes the foundry marks for a lot of companies. There is a 1961 edition of the book online here: https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...view=1up&seq=7

I didn't see any marks like the SDF, but maybe it could be found in an earlier edition, if one could be found.

Dave

[JTR249]

Here is an updated chart for vertical parts only. 1949-1951.
If anyone knows the missing information, just post or open and change and add the information.
If anything is incorrect, let me know and I will make corrections.
-JR

[JTR249]

Here's the last scan. The first page also contains the back cover.
-JR

[JTR249]

Oh, okay. I misunderstood you. Sorry. Yes, I see in other states similar things. The H in the wing on vertical inner cases could be any foundry that begins with an H in MA or PA. I didn't find anything on Nelson mufflers in Wisconsin. Robin Markey said only the valve springs were like that, though I don't know if that is a late change or an original factory decision. The vertical frames were all made of chrome molybdenum (chrome-moly) metal. The cylinders, cylinder heads and cases were all a special aircraft industry aluminum. Warrior inlet manifolds were bronze castings and the Arrow and Scout were aluminum like the cases.
I have attached a pamphlet that was published on the verticals during that time period. They published all kinds of data about the parts except where they were manufactured.

-JR

[pisten-bully]

I saw the key, and I was referring to the one foundry stamp that has a big "S" and little "d" and little "f" ....the "S" in the foundry stamp doesn't refer to the key in the book, and doesn't necessarily stand for Springfield...could be "Smith" or "Simpson" or anything else the foundry was named and not a reference to what the book says in the key. But if the castings are steel or malleable iron, then using the book and knowing what they're made of will narrow down the search.

With Indian's financial state at the time and their associations with Brockhouse and others in the UK then who knows, perhaps some 249 parts were cast in the UK!

[JTR249]

Pisten-Bully, Look at the third sheet in the first post. There is an image titled "Key" that tells you what those letters mean. "S" means steel, "A" means Aluminum, etc.
This is really an interesting book, though in order to track down the location of parts manufacturing, it just isn't there. Knowing, for example that the vertical fenders were made at York, PA does show under the PA tab a foundry for York on the very street which another enthusiast, Robin Markey, said that's where they were made. The street and city match, though there is nothing there indicating all the companies they did business with in those years. Read the preface sheet and the key and they will make much more sense. One question now might be, how does someone find out how a company sources out parts? If they bought in bulk and didn't keep records, we'll most likely never know.
I'll see what I can find.
-JR

[pisten-bully]

John, shows you how much I know, but are those castings malleable iron, or steel? And now that you have the book you can expand your search to other states... Indian probably had weak credit in 1949 so they may have had to source from farther away! The "S" doesn't have to be Springfield, but it seems logical that the "f" is foundry...dontcha think?

[JTR249]

And, the map.
-JR

[JTR249]

Here's more.
-JR