1917 Powerplus

[painterdale]

Wow! Fantastic! I knew this would be the place to get educated. Spacke2speed, I have to agree with Kevin, you are a wealth of information. It makes sense about the tool box, judging from the small bits and pieces I found in there. Inside the door is a bit of paper that you can read "company" on. I feel a little better about the taillight connector because one day while rolling the bike around it got caught in the spokes and broke. Oops! Brittle little piece. If you should decide that the mag-dynamo ever needs a new home please keep me in mind. Kevin, I definitely don't want to restore it. I want to get it in operable condition and I like to think I would ride it but I also like to think I ride my other bikes, too! Dale

[Shaky Jake]

...As far as not having a luggage rack, note the extensions on the rear axle. These are for mounting a tandem (passenger) seat. Most tandem seats would require removal of the luggage rack...

Spacke2speed, you sir are a wealth of information as usual. I wondered what those extensions on the rear axle were for. The passenger seat makes sense.

Dale, are you going to restore this one, or just fix it and ride it? Or just bring it out in the light and admire it on sunny days? I'm jut curious; the bike would be well suited to any one of these options. On my '16, since it will be a rider and not a 100 point restoration, I'm considering retrofitting some old or reproduction tail and headlight housings with LED bulbs, and then just running a total loss battery system that can be recharged overnight when the bike is parked.



Kevin


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[exeric]

You can see the ABC generator in this picture. Not intended for use with bellbottoms

[Spacke2speed]

Painterdale
On you PP, that is a tool box with the Indian script latch is on the left side which now has a fuse block on its lid, not the battery box. Your battery box is on the right side just above the sidecar mount bracket. The Eric Smith’s literature shows the battery box on the left side, but the tool box and battery box can be mounted on either side. The battery box is notched along the top of the backside for the wiring and has a vertical rod that keeps both the side door and the removable lid locked in place. Remove the locking rod and the side door opens up and the lid come off for easy battery replacement. On the inside of the door on the tool box there should be a list of the tools that come with the motorcycle from the factory. I still have a tool box which has that list inside it, in a box of stuff somewhere in my garage attic.
I use to tour my 1914 Indian with two tool boxes and not battery box because that allowed me to carry more tools and spare parts. Because I mounted gas lights (and used them), I did not mount my battery boxes. If you are going to be riding you PP a lot on public roads, a working battery box (electrical system) is useful for powering a brake light, keeps you from getting pulled over a lot by the Highway Patrol for no stop light ---- do not ask how I know this ---- not easy to have a gas powered brake light.
As far as not having a luggage rack, note the extensions on the rear axle. These are for mounting a tandem (passenger) seat. Most tandem seats would require removal of the luggage rack.
As far as the Splitdorf magneto/dyno unit, I have seen them on Excelsior (45deg) and Indian (42deg). I have seen people running them on tours with no problems, they were in good working condition and adjusted correctly. I still have one of those Splitdorf mag/dynos in a box of stuff somewhere in my garage attic.
There are two versions of the Splitdorf switch block on the Indian supplement that Eric Smith showed, the early version does not have and the later version does has an on/off switch for the horn, so back then, kids would not be able to honk the horn by just pressing the handle bar switch.
The electrical end and cap on the taillight wiring is not the correct Indian taillight version.
ABC Generator has a battery and a non-battery system for electrical lighting also. Their early Indian version mounted on the tube below the gas tank and above the linkage boss on the front down tube. On the Indian, they would require a pulley mounted to an extension off the motor sprocket nut. In the Iron Redskin, there is a picture of two Hedstrom Indians on a mountain pass with ABC generators mounted.
Hope some of this will help
Spacke2speed

[painterdale]

Thanks for the response, Steve. I agree, I would want the correct one. I was just curious if it would have run because it looks like the mag has been there a long time. Dale

[panthersteve]

It is my understanding that they will run with the wrong degree magneto. It just means that with one cylinder correctly timed the other will be 5 degrees out.

I would want to have the correct degree magneto even though they will run.

Cheers
Steve

[painterdale]

Great info! Thanks everyone. At least there are options. Had to go out and check the drive side of the mag. No marking except the 1 & 2. So does anyone have an opinion on whether this was running with this mag? Dale

[panthersteve]

Here is a Bosch 42 degree mag/dyno if it is of any interest. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Veteran-B...item1e96240ef8

Cheers Steve

[exeric]

Dale, here are pictures from the 1916 Indian catalog supplement. Somewhere, I have some Indian literature that shows the Splitdorf retrofit kit that used the Splitdorf DU5 generator, and Splitdorf magneto for electrifying earlier non-electric models, and replacement of the mag/dyno unit. As Kevin mentioned; the Splitdorf mag/dyno units are very rare, and very expensive, and usually don't work. Gene Harper recently rebuilt one and said they are quite a challenge. The retrofit kit would be the way to go, and would be period correct if I could find that literature. . . I'll keep looking.

[Shaky Jake]

Dale - on my Dixie magneto the 42 degrees is stamped on the drive side, not on the arm. I thought the Bosch mags were that way also, for example here is a link to one on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/351244975569...569%26_rdc%3D1

The Splitdorf mag/dynamo's come up occasionally on ebay, but they are apparently very precious.



Kevin

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[painterdale]

The biggest problem I see is the magneto is incorrect. Being electric it should have a Splitdorf Mag-Dynamo. This appears to be an H-D magneto. I believe Indian should have "42" on the arm. Is that correct? Would this bike have ever run with this mag on it? It obviously has been there a while. Dale

[painterdale]

The engine does turn over. I used a turkey baster to put a bit of ATF in the cylinders. Then every couple weeks I work the rear wheel back and forth. The valve lift or decompression lever seems to be frozen. Got some Kroil working on that. Underneath all of the grease and grime there is still some red paint.
Being an electric model, it still has the fuse block on top of the battery box which has this cool little latch that still works.
I never paid too much attention to the holes in the valve covers. Maybe someone can enlighten us. Dale

[Shaky Jake]

Also noticed, Kevin, that the front fender safety strap that you show in one of your pictures from Wheels Through Time is not present. The holes and the rubber bushing are there but no strap. Dale

I noticed that too. I'm not sure when they started using the safety strap, my '16 fender doesn't even have the holes for it, even though Hedstrom's '13 prototype had one.

I also see that your bike had an electric tail light at one time and it appears to have been removed, and it has a speedometer drive gear but no speedometer. Also it would have originally had a hand brake on the left handlebar that operates the brake band on the outside of the brake drum. The foot brake operates the brake shoes inside the same brake drum. Something looks funny about your foot brake linkage, but I can't tell what from the pictures. I'm curious about the small holes that are neatly drilled in each of the upper valve stem covers, I could be wrong but I don't think those holes were originally there. Pretty much all of the nickel plating appears to be gone, and very little of the original paint is left, which is a shame. It doesn't have the luggage rack, but I don't think they all came with one.

I'm no expert but I still say your bike is one of, if not the, the most complete unrestored '17's out there. It has a lot of the little things, like the priming cups with the angled top, which are frequently missing. And the little bracket under the gas tank that holds the spark plug wires in place is still there, you rarely see those. All of the handlebar control linkages are there and the decomp lever is still hooked up. It gives me the impression that it hasn't been worked on a lot over the years. Also the tanks and fenders are relatively dent free, and all of the fender stays are still there. The exhaust pipes look pretty good and the muffler is there, although the tailpipe has been broken or cut off of it. The shifter is intact and unmolested. I can't see any broken cooling fins on the engine, it seems like most of the Powerplus engines have some broken fins, because they are so thin.

Does the engine turn over?




Kevin

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[painterdale]

Also noticed, Kevin, that the front fender safety strap that you show in one of your pictures from Wheels Through Time is not present. The holes and the rubber bushing are there but no strap. Dale

[painterdale]

Kevin, I have already taken many photos to try to document everything. I would be more than happy to post photos of anything someone wants to see. I can take pictures anytime. That way I could also get feedback on what might actually be original and what may have been changed. Not everything is original. For instance, I believe the nail in the front axle where a cotter pin (?) would be, might be a period modification. I do know from the person who sold me the bike that it has not been touched in at least 50 years because he put it in the basement of his house in 1963 and it had been in his motorcycle shop for a few years before that. If you are ever in the DC area, you are of course welcome to take all the pictures you want. Dale