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Clutch Recommendations for my 40 Chief twin

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  • Clutch Recommendations for my 40 Chief twin

    I am having a real problem with my clutch not-staying disengaged at the foot petal, it wants to engage when I come to a stop and I dare not Ever take my foot off. Yes I understand its best to put the bike in neutral, which I strive to do, BUT I know there is something seriously wrong with the way mine is operating as it immediately tries to engage all the time.

    I have adjusted the castle nut, (no washer under it), I have ensured the plates are free of oil as is the fibre disk, Ive added a second fibre disk, Ive tightened the spring till it wont tighten any more. If I disconnect the rod I do get a reasonable amount of friction at this end. SOOO, I have also adjusted the rod and the location of the lever, ive set it up correctly at the recommended positions, nothing helps. I pulled my clutch pack, the disks are of an older vintage, clean and meaty but. The worm maybe was changed out at some point, i don't really know, the worm does have the very leading edge of the thread broken away, but its just the tip of it. I have not measured my springs or checked my pressure plate for being true, I think it is but I will get in there and do that. My clutch pack has the fiber disk, the steel plate, fibre disk etc until the end then its got 3 fiber disks all together, which brings the gap to within tolerances, so it appears ok. I don't like the way the clutch engages either, its very rough, So I am thinking lets just go ahead and replace the clutch with a modern style, I know that the KING clutches were pretty good, but don't seem to be available, Greer has a version and I saw the Kiwi video and his setup which seems good, also as well as the clutch supplied by QUA International, also seems like a good contender, though I would have to add his back side of the pressure plate which I really dont want to do.

    I have not found anyone that will recommend a brand and was hoping to extract some opinions here? Ultimately my bike is amazing runs great and is well restored and correct, but this clutch problem feels very dangerous to me, I still ride the bike a-lot but its time to fix this somehow.

    Attached Files
    Last edited by NiteOwl; 07-06-2021, 01:16 AM.
    Bob Beatty
    AMCA 19209

  • #2
    NIteOwl

    Did this Issue: "clutch not-staying disengaged" just start? or develop over time gradually?

    Safety First.

    I am running the Kiwi Clutch with Aluminum anti-chatter pressure plate and have been very happy with it.

    Comment


    • #3
      I went with the QUA based on a recommendation from Peter - PRG. He has not steered me wrong yet! Suppose its been there 4 years maybe 5 and 12k miles. 100% satisfied. No adjustments or nuisance issues. Complete disengagement, smooth engage. Ride two-up and mostly always in mountainous areas. I left out 4 springs.
      Jason Z
      AMCA #21594
      Near Pittsburgh PA (Farm Country)
      Allegheny Mountain Chapter http://amcaamc.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Like Paul I've got a Kiwi clutch Ed Glasgow sold me, it's been a good clutch. Interestingly, the clutch that was in my Chief from the previous owner had a clutch pack that was different than what the Repair and Overhaul Manual calls for (I don't recall exactly what was different other than the number of plates was different), and when I installed the Kiwi clutch I used the same number of plates and friction discs as called for in the manual and it's been a good set-up for 40k+ miles. I'm using the full set of springs, too.

        Oh, and it's also important to check the pressure plate clearance:
        clutch.jpg
        Last edited by pisten-bully; 07-06-2021, 10:09 AM.
        Pisten Bulley is Harry Roberts in Vermont.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it.

          OK, the history, This has been a problem since I have owned the bike. I bought it about 8 years ago and did a full restoration, I rode it 2 years ago and noticed this problem, but winter came and then the pandemic and its only now that I have her back on the road and ride it daily now, that it has come back to the surface of my mind that I need to get this resolved. I am going to call Ed Glasgow today. I was thinking about it all and there must be some crazy movement in the system to transfer to the front petal and make it want to move. . Once I settle on a clutch pack I will order it and then pull mine apart again to measure springs and check the plates. OH, I forgot to mention I do live in British Columbia so I do have lots of hills to climb I also have a sidecar that I dont run yet at all, but intend to (for my granddaughter's), once I get this sorted out.
          Bob Beatty
          AMCA 19209

          Comment


          • #6
            Good Luck with it NiteOwl.
            Please post a follow-up post let me know how you make out.

            Comment


            • #7
              My fibers had two that would not release from metal discs properly and I had cleaned them well ,but must of had some sticky oil in them so i went with one of the modern set ups to fix.

              Comment


              • #8
                update:
                I spoke with Ed Glasgow and ordered the clutch he sells and a couple other things so I would not get stuck with any downtime when re assembling, (Or have to open it again), I grabbed a new bearing, and even a worm gear as mine is probably ok but it did have chips at the thread ends. When I get the stuff I will report back. In the meanwhile, I have loosened my foot clutch castle nut and just work with it.

                The machine actually runs pretty good and perhaps I am just getting to worked up over the fact the clutch will not stay put when disengaged, I am beginning t think after so many conversations with many experienced indian guys that its the way they operate and its not that hard to deal with it. (I was comparing to my HDs where this is not a thing because of the significant over-center and I was expecting them to be the same). In reality now that that the foot Petal is looser, I can easily engage the machine and as long as I always shift to neutral and take care I am absolutely fine and I even may have jumped the gun on the new clutch pack (But I will still install to see if I have a difference). I do have the overspeed in it and neutral is a breeze to find.
                Bob Beatty
                AMCA 19209

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've still got a complete KING clutch in inventory, Folks!

                  It will be at D-port for a meet special at $135, and I have a set of spare plates, too.

                  ....Cotten
                  PS: Back in the day, I installed OEM, Charles Qua, and King clutches, and they all worked fine. But golly that was twenty years ago...
                  AMCA #776
                  Dumpster Diver's Motto: Seek,... and Ye Shall Find!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Nite Owl;
                    Sounds like you are on your way with this.

                    Back to to issue of clutch not-staying disengaged at the foot petal and wanting to engage when you come to a stop.:

                    I would think this might be a Clutch pedal friction washer, Clutch pedal spring, Castle Nut issue?

                    I do not have this issue BUT I am in poor position to judge as my crash box was replaced with 4spd overdrive.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Howdy sir,

                      Compared to the superb rocker pedal setup on my 41FL, the Indian arrangement is beyond crude and tiring in urban riding for those of us having compromised our ankle articulation with dirt bike crashes and such. I dispensed with the stock arrangement decades ago on my 346 and 348 with this simple setup. Placed Teflon washers on either side of the fiber disc, greased liberally, set castle nut just barely cinched, cut rear ear off pedal assembly, drilled small hole in footboard bracket and attached return spring. Then adjusted linkage to prevent coil bind (and throw out bearing damage) at full pedal depression so swift shifts could be flicked off mindlessly.

                      Yes, Indians can sit curbside with the pedal depressed while running with no ill mechanical effect but why put up with this pedal giving stiff resistance even to re-engage while underway.

                      Cheerio,
                      Peter
                      #6510
                      1950 Vincent - A Red Rapide Experience

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am glad PRG commented on this.

                        I just read his tips 346 Tips Follow link posted (Pisten-Bully "In frame
                        Gearbox rebuild" this forum) to Primary Drive then Clutch Enhancement.

                        Excellent!

                        PRG
                        Question:

                        How would I adjust linkage to prevent coil bind and throw out bearing
                        damage at full pedal depression? (Use simple words Please).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Howdy Paul,

                          Whether mystery innards with a newly acquired/disassembled long time owned one or having replaced everything in the clutch assembly you want to know the degrees of rotation of the worm viewed from the side from just cinched to clutch fully disengaged without influence of the drag sometimes created by your worm sometimes snagging in its receiver in the primary. This degree of rotation is dictated by clutch stack height, spring wire length and diameter. So, take your primary cover, turn it inside out - so to speak - insert your worm, draw out the slack. Whichever end of the screw slot on the end of your worm is facing up, use that as your index/starting point. Rotate your worm with a box wrench till you observe your clutch springs fully collapsed. That is the safe stopping point, however you want to translate into crude paper degree wheel with start/stop point for use once you’ve refitted your cover as that is your range of rotation irregardless of where your worm’s initial cinch point ends up after assembly (will be different because of gap between clutch assembly and inside of primary cover when assembled as opposed to the face of the cover butting up against the pressure plate for the above measurement). This seemingly limited range of motion is entirely adequate for complete disengagement with clash free operation while underway with quality clutches and careful assembly.

                          As an aside, the higher the stiction or coefficient of friction of your clutch plates (Qua being best) generally stack height is less because fewer plates are needed, and thus range of motion a non issue. Additionally it also permits using less springs (I have not confirmed with side car use or lack of Torque Evenor): 12 on a hotrod 80 incher. This imparts far better clutch engagement feel and less effort.
                          Last edited by PRG; 07-15-2021, 09:12 PM.
                          Cheerio,
                          Peter
                          #6510
                          1950 Vincent - A Red Rapide Experience

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            PRG

                            Okay Professor; Thanks for the response.

                            After thinking on this I have some questions, but I do not want to
                            'hijack' NiteOwls thread so I will send you a private message (PLUS
                            that way my ignorance is not on public display).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Paul - I did look at the pedal and my friction is new and spring with castle is all great. I do have friction there. I also have the overdive gearbox. This week I am opening up the clutch and replacing some parts. I will report back findings.
                              Last edited by NiteOwl; 07-17-2021, 07:37 PM.
                              Bob Beatty
                              AMCA 19209

                              Comment

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