Wet sumping question/hard to kick

[Lipdog]

Update: I checked the drain plug and drained (guessing) about 1/4-1/3 quart. The bike has been sitting, and it also was on a transport truck driving 1500 mi and then in a warehouse.

- Could that transportation and movement cause an otherwise good engine to wet sump?
- Also, could that amount of extra oil in the sump make the bike harder to kick over?I also checked the plugs: totally oil fouled.

[Skirted]

Transportation won't cause sumping. It seems fairly common for rebuilders to not get the check ball seated properly in the pump. there have been many threads about sumping. Here is latest. http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...hlight=sumping
I doubt 1/3 quart would make it noticeably harder to kick over.

Who knows what was done to the bike before you got it. I'd clean the plugs, insure no oil in sump and restart and see what happens and let us know. While the spark plugs are out of it, kick it over. Should be very little to no resistance.

Once plugs are back in and its hard to kick, then process can start to figure that out. In the event it is still hard to kick with plugs out, do not attempt to start it until root cause is found and corrected.

Not that it has anything to do with your problem but being a new bike to you, I personally would verify point gap (if it still has points) and make sure timing is right on the money.

Who rebuilt the engine? Is there any documentation what they did? What parts were installed? Any performance modifications from stock?

[tomfiii]

Sometimes hard kicking can mean kicker needs a shot of grease.

[46CHF]

Remove top crankcase plug ( 1/8 pipe plug)from lower left hand crankcase excess oil will drain out once it quits dripping put plug back In you are ready to roll

[Lipdog]

Update: First, I was checking the wrong level plug before (the one for the trans). I checked the sump and got about a half quart + out (see photo). So it did wet sump. I'll keep an eye on it to see if that continues to happen and how fast.

Next, I removed the plugs to see if it's easier to kick over. It is. It's a recently rebuilt engine, so it's tight. I guess that's good unless it breaks my leg. Otherwise I'll assume it'll loosen over time.

So I got it started (not easily) and let it idle to warm up maybe 5-10m. I had just replaced the plugs with some Autolite 303s (3/8" extension) and they fouled (see photo). It could be from residual oil from the wet sumping, it could be normal for an old Indian with a Linkert at idle, it could be too cold a plug (doubt it), or it could be a rich carb adjustment. I don't have experience with these carbs and engines. What do you think it is?

Thanks again for all the help.

IMG_0325.jpgIMG_0328.jpg

[PaulCDF]

Update: First, I was checking the wrong level plug before (the one for the trans). I checked the sump and got about a half quart + out (see photo). So it did wet sump. I'll keep an eye on it to see if that continues to happen and how fast.

Next, I removed the plugs to see if it's easier to kick over. It is. It's a recently rebuilt engine, so it's tight. I guess that's good unless it breaks my leg. Otherwise I'll assume it'll loosen over time.

So I got it started (not easily) and let it idle to warm up maybe 5-10m. I had just replaced the plugs with some Autolite 303s (3/8" extension) and they fouled (see photo). It could be from residual oil from the wet sumping, it could be normal for an old Indian with a Linkert at idle, it could be too cold a plug (doubt it), or it could be a rich carb adjustment. I don't have experience with these carbs and engines. What do you think it is?

Thanks again for all the help.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25881[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]25882[/ATTACH]

When you say "easier to kick over" can you (somehow?) be more specific. I have been "shadowing" your experience & this thread. I am new here also so learning. I pulled the plugs on my Chief (looked rich but not oil fouled). Getting back to the kicking to turn over; without the plugs turns over EZ: did 100 kicks in sets of 10 NO sticking NO hang up
NO more resistance than would be expected from essentially 74 cubic inches of compressed air exiting two spark plug holes.

After the 5-10 minute warm up did you intentionally shut it down OR did it stop due to fouling????

Was the exhaust clear? Oily?? Smokey???

[Skirted]

You should be able to push the kicker over by hand without much effort when plugs are out even with fresh rebuild.

If you have not already, best money spent is to order a Riders Instruction book and a Repair and Overhaul Manual for your bike. Short term you should be able to download from the AMCA Virtual Library. http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/index.php?page=vinmoli

As PaulCDF asked Did plug fowl to point it would not spark or you just checked it and it looked black? If the latter I’d want to access how it looks after at least a 5-10 mile ride at normal road speeds.

Be very careful if adjusting carb. Making it too lean will cause it to run hot causing blued pipes among other issues.

[pisten-bully]

The Rider's Instruction Book advises initial carb set up should be 1 1/2 turns off the seat for the high speed needle, and 4 turns off the seat for the low speed needle. Those will set the carburetor up to run rich (in most cases) so warm it up and start adjusting. Jason's right, get the Rider's Instruction Book from the AMCA Virtual library (if you don't already have one). Could be your motor was rebuilt and then set up to run rich. I think there's lots of Forum topics that cover carburetor tuning! Good luck, your Chief will start and run lean or rich, but it will run best when you set up your carburetor!

[T. Cotten]

Didn't you say the 303s were 'resistors', Lipdog?

Fouling is not normal for an old Indian with a Linkert.

If it were oil pushed past the rings, they will always look wet.
If they are gas-fouled, they will dry in the sunshine.
Resistor plugs can foul and fail with no visible residue at all.

The most common reason to run way too rich is because it won't run any other way: vacuum leak.

....Cotten

[Lipdog]

The exhaust seemed clear. I was just letting it idle in my driveway as I won’t be through the CA registration process for another month. So I can’t really take it out for a good ride until then. There may be some residual oil in the cylinders from the prior wet sump condition, but it appears the plugs are carbon/gas fouled. The should still work but not ideally.

A couple more questions for clarity:
- Do these bikes generally idle for awhile without building carbon on the plugs if the carb is set correctly?
- Should I run non resistor plugs? I have some NOS Champions and some Indian repros. Others have said they run the Autolite 303s, which are resistor.

[pisten-bully]

- Do these bikes generally idle for awhile without building carbon on the plugs if the carb is set correctly?
- Should I run non resistor plugs? I have some NOS Champions and some Indian repros. Others have said they run the Autolite 303s, which are resistor.

-Idling shouldn’t foul your plugs, but “idle for awhile” could mean 3 minutes or 30 minutes, so unless you’re set up super lean then you’re bound to get some blackening the longer you idle. The other day I was waiting for a flag guy at a repaving operation for fifteen+ minutes with no ill effect (except for my patience wearing thin...in those cases I worry more about lubrication!)
-Autolite 303’s are what Greer’s sells, they’re what I use, and they work great!

Warm your Chief up and try adjusting the carburetor before you go on the hunt for a different plug, your Chief will run with lots of problems (see Cotten’s remark on vacuum leaks...but tune your carb first and run it before you go there)...but it’ll run so much better if you tune the carb first. Have you done that? (BTW, you can get it warm enough to tune the carb by idling in your driveway)

[Lipdog]

That’s a big help, thanks. I just wanted to make sure they all don’t blacken the plugs quickly. I had it idling for 10+ minutes and the plugs are pretty dirty. I’m not half bad with carbs so I’ll tackle that next.

[PaulCDF]

I found this site very helpful when initially setting up my Linkert:
http://linkertcarbs.com/linkertcarbu...djustment.html

On an unrelated matter I found adjusting the clutch pedal "free-play" properly made the bike tremendously more fun to drive. (Pg 36 of the Indian Motorcycle Repair and Overhaul manual).

[T. Cotten]

I found this site very helpful when initially setting up my Linkert:
http://linkertcarbs.com/linkertcarbu...djustment.html...

Advance "nearly all the way", and then start the engine?

I dunno, Paul.

My ankle hurts just thinking about it.

Should I read any farther?

....Cotten
PS: Doh!
I just caught the warning that the bike must be upright.
Damn I've been lucky.

[T. Cotten]

Lipdog!

Carbs are easy. Manifolds are not: Http://virtualindian.org/11techleaktest.html

Please feel free to ask any and all questions as they arise.

And Good Luck, plus Patience...

....Cotten
PS: Carbs are easy except for what's on my bench.