Newby - Seeking Mentor On Purchasing a 46-48 Chief

[Lonewolf_51]

Kicker spring

Jason Z, can tell just by looking at picture (which doesn't give you true condition) I can tell the kicker spring is broke. After doing a few rebuilds of my own, this bike will find plenty of parts that need replaced, reconditioned, rebuilt, etc...That $19,000.00 will rack up in price. That's why you see some guys asking $45,000.00 or more for a standard restored Chief!

[sirhrmechanic]

I was watching this and am not surprised by the price. The 'barn find' (or preservation class) machines, both cars and bikes, are hot right now. People are paying for patina and for unrestored machines. It's only original once. With a good recommissioning and sympathetic mechanical work that does not strip all the patina off it, you get a valuable 'original' machine that runs great and has a major plus over 'just another restored machine.'

That said... what I can't tell from the picture is whether that really is a barn find original... or whether it was restored (perhaps badly?) in the '70's or '80's or whether it's really what it is purported to be. A bike restored to the standards of 30 years ago... that has sat for a couple of decades... ALSO is a barn find. I'd want to look at this machine closely before calling it an original barn find bike and paying a premium price.

I'd call the price in the high ballpark... perhaps well sold. But noone went silly on it, either with the reserve or with the sale price. If the buyer is happy and gets it on the road again, he paid what it was worth to him... Hope to see that bike at a meet someday!

Cheers,

Sirhr

[RobW96]

Jason,
Was in, and some may say still am, in your position. Great advice here, and go to the meets. Also go see some bikes. I traveled to Butler PA where there is a 47 for sale. Once I got there and looked at the bike, even in my inexperienced state, I felt I should walk away from it. Make sure the bike is running before you go see it unless your willing to fix. I went to see and it wasnt running but" we have a guy who could get it running probably by the end of the day".
Good luck in your search. The journey is part of the fun.
As mentioned before, go see Bob's Indian. Robin is a charactor but very friendly and talkative. I was there in May but he had nothing in the 40's Indians for sale. As others have mentioned to me, Robin is pretty tight fisted with his bikes. If you choose to talk with him, call, dont email.

[Skirted]

Jason,
Was in, and some may say still am, in your position. Great advice here, and go to the meets. Also go see some bikes. I traveled to Butler PA where there is a 47 for sale. Once I got there and looked at the bike, even in my inexperienced state, I felt I should walk away from it. Good luck in your search. The journey is part of the fun.

Interesting you noted the 47 in Butler at Cycle Warehouse. I had seen that 47 advertised for awhile and finally decided to go see it a couple weeks ago if for no other reason to make sure my wife would be comfortable on a chummy seat. Within 15 seconds of looking at the bike the front fender had a different look and after tapping on it with my knuckle sure enough it was fiberglass. All this while the sales guy was telling us the bike was all original. Then it went from that after I pointed it out, to him telling me it may have had a fiberglass fender when new. In defense of the sales guy I'm confident he was not trying to be dishonest, rather he just didn't know the older bikes. The gas tanks were rusty inside and the right tank had a leak as evidenced by the paint at the bottom being badly bubbled. It hadn't run since they bought it at an auction in Vegas over a couple years ago but still had several oil leaks. Credit where its due, other than the front fender, the rest of the bike looked mostly original and functional as far as its parts. Their bottom price was $25,500 so compared to the bike in the listing above, probably wasn't too far off especially at a dealer with higher overhead.

We were there (Cycle Warehouse) it was closing time and sales guy was great not rushing us. He said they had some old Indians on the third floor and wondered if we wanted to see them. Before I could get a word out my wife said sure lets go! We were blown away. There had to be 600+ bikes up there some so rare I'd never heard of them. Anywhere from parts bikes to perfect 100% originals. Most weren't Indians but there were several old 40s Chiefs as well as military machines. They had some really cool old stuff too like from the 20s. He said the 3rd floor bikes weren't for sale formally but for the right offer, anything is for sale. It was well worth the hours drive. Had no idea what we would see besides the 47.

On the excellent general comments by sirhrmechanic about original patina bikes being in demand right now, I have noticed that as well. And the same goes for the classic car industry. In my grasshopper state of knowledge on Indians I will abstain from trying to figure out whats original!

And Lonewolf_51 - I thought the same thing that there will be a host of other issues needing addressed on that $19k bike that aren't visible in the 4 pictures. Speaking of 4 pictures, thats another thing that surprised me is that the seller only provided 4 pics with just a short description and it still went for good money indicating basically the bike sold itself. No bling needed in marketing.

[PRG]

Howdy Jason,

After decades in this hobby primarily focused on Indians, in your shoes at the moment as I get ready to scratch that long contemplated itch for the most documented (intricate component variations) machine of its era, a Knuckle Head, more on that in a moment

There are more similarities than not between vintage 2 and 4 wheels in this case and the former actually a lot easier when applied to Indians as they are very basic and forgiving machines: both a good and bad trait as the unskilled can wade in.

Your safest and most expeditious bet would be the following:
• Modern era judged, ie Junior 1st at major show (Davenport, Wauseon, etc), machine, 5-10 year old resto
with several thousand miles on it.
• Acquired from long standing prominent AMCA member marque specialist.

Judged machines from major events have a tendency to have less repop and where fitted is of better quality. Marque specialists…er, uh, better known as fanatics (raises hand) are more likely to have multiples of one model in every genre from original paint low milers, to riders to winner circle caliber machines so are well versed in both the correct component fitment, what’s required for a machine to be reliable in modern traffic conditions as well as a more balanced view on sensible discreet mod’s out of the myriad of stuff available to make for a reliable ride. It’s a small world at the upper end of this hobby and more prominent figures value their reputation. I’d familiarize myself with who these folks are by acquiring a pile of past AMCA mag’s and perusing the Virtual Indian board.

Of the mid/late 40’s Chiefs, 46’s with their relaxed fork rake provide the most pleasant ride and least (or less) evidence of increasing frugality in component fitment with later models as evidenced by details such as generator covers, fuse holders, front brake arm assemblies, etc.. My 46 is the favorite of my Indians.

In my case, staring at several hundred pages of Bruce Palmer’s Knuckle Head resto book, only makes me realize how little I know while wading into the minefield that is shopping for a Knuckle these days. But, with years around the AMCA and a different agenda on this occasion - no basket/long term project - just ready to ride and that means a “tweener”. Not a pricey original paint machine required custodial coddling or a sterile restoration….which I could do myself anyway, rather something in between, a solid rider I won’t be looking at a year from now thinking I knew better than to do that. So, looking at a 15 year old resto with 5-10k miles on it from a long time AMCA'r with many more of the same model in his collection who’s now chosen to focus on original paint machines. I’ll have the option of letting it continue to patina itself over the years or, have a very solid foundation for a great resto years from now if the mood strikes..but in the meantime, an enjoyable rider with credible provenance.

Good luck with yours.

[Skirted]

Peter,
Thanks for taking the time to type out all that wisdom. I come from 33 years (since 17 y/o) as a Buick car enthusiast where owners tend to have more refined personalities vs some of the mainstream classic car model owners. I honestly did not know what to expect coming to this forum and the AMCA. What a pleasant surprise to find true enthusiasts with genuine character that oozes from each sentence they type. I can already see I'll learn alot here.

Ahhh the Virtual Indian board - Looks like another several hours of reading/cramming. I also just spent an hour looking over your website in the middle of this reply. Very interesting and impressive projects to say the least! Alot of helpful hints on the 48 as well. I'm the type of person who has to know exactly how everything works so that was perfect. I'm currently investigating what appears to be a good opportunity on a 48but really want to attend the fall meet coming up in eastern PA before beforehand.