1948 chief clutch or transmission trouble?

[Bugzy]

I am new to the site,was hoping to get help with latest occurance on my 1948 chief.Yesterday was riding,shifting from 2nd to third when bike started to slow down as if i had turned off motor and had clutch halfway engaged,kinda draggedme to a standstill. I put bike in neutral,kicked it thru with ignition off,no noises or unfamiliar feel of drag with clutch[i.e felt normal]. I moved shifter through the gears ,felt normal. I nervously started the bike and rode it the 5 miles home. I must add that the night before when riding I noticed when taking off from a standstill I was hearing a squeal when starting to engage clutch. I have never heard this noise before. Bear in mind that I bought the bike[my first Indian] in july of 2011 from a great guy up in new hampshire. I live in florida and have put 5000 miles on it since . It was a rebuilt motor /transmission ground up rebuild. I did have one leak.......generator drive sprocket bushing. The bike had 23 miles on it when I got it. A few months ago I tore into it to addrsess the leak. My question is........... does anyone think that perhaps the mainshaft nut came loose and is allowing the shaft to wander? I have not torn into it yet,I don't wanna go off half cocked. I suspect that my inexperience could have been to blame. I so wanted to fix it myself and don't have any more funds after buying the bike ...........and then the tools and parts to repair the leak. sorry for the long winded post. I have been reading everything I could on this forum as a guest untill now.I joined the club this morning. Any thoughts? Thanks Bugzy

[fillibuster]

I am new to the site,was hoping to get help with latest occurance on my 1948 chief.Yesterday was riding,shifting from 2nd to third when bike started to slow down as if i had turned off motor and had clutch halfway engaged,kinda draggedme to a standstill. I put bike in neutral,kicked it thru with ignition off,no noises or unfamiliar feel of drag with clutch[i.e felt normal]. I moved shifter through the gears ,felt normal. I nervously started the bike and rode it the 5 miles home. I must add that the night before when riding I noticed when taking off from a standstill I was hearing a squeal when starting to engage clutch. I have never heard this noise before. Bear in mind that I bought the bike[my first Indian] in july of 2011 from a great guy up in new hampshire. I live in florida and have put 5000 miles on it since . It was a rebuilt motor /transmission ground up rebuild. I did have one leak.......generator drive sprocket bushing. The bike had 23 miles on it when I got it. A few months ago I tore into it to addrsess the leak. My question is........... does anyone think that perhaps the mainshaft nut came loose and is allowing the shaft to wander? I have not torn into it yet,I don't wanna go off half cocked. I suspect that my inexperience could have been to blame. I so wanted to fix it myself and don't have any more funds after buying the bike ...........and then the tools and parts to repair the leak. sorry for the long winded post. I have been reading everything I could on this forum as a guest untill now.I joined the club this morning. Any thoughts? Thanks Bugzy

Clutch sprocket hub, inside of main bearing, nut has worked its way loose. Now you have to tear down a little, remove tower and cover, and inspect. ... I fixed mine on a sidecar rig, at the camp site, used hammer and slim punch to work the nut back on, took a lot of persistence, threads were difficult. Your locking washer failed, and I suggest more thorough and patient methods and tools than I employed in the boondocks.
Good luck and good riding!

[Bugzy]

Thank you,Red Dog, for your timely response. Would you suggest blue loctite? I am wondering if I need to replace the lockwasher or perhaps I didnt hit it hard enough for fear of hurting or damaging my baby?! This site is the BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!! Again Thanks Bugzy

[Jack K]

I've got to believe the motorcycle gods are not smiling when we are tighting nuts with a hammer and chisel. Buy or make a tool to hold that clutch basket nut inside the gear box while you turn the clutch assembly from the primary side. Peel back the locking washer on the engine sprocket, set your torgue wrench to 40 ft lb, turn the engine clockwise (probably be easier with the sparkplugs out) using the primary chain to turn the clutch. With the more than 2 to 1 ratio of the primary, the clutch basket nut will be torgued to over 80 ft lb. Bend both locks into place and you won't have that problem again.

[Bugzy]

I cannot thank you enough for that reply Jack K!!!!!!!!!!!!!I would never have thought of that. I am gonna go fix it right now! Joining this club could prove to be the smartest thing I could have done. I am so grateful for you taking the time to post your information.What an awesome community this is. Knowledge TRULY is power. Thank you SSSSOoooooooooooo much. I have never loved a computer as much as I do now. Bugzy

[fillibuster]

quote: "I've got to believe the motorcycle gods are not smiling when we are tighting nuts with a hammer and chisel. " end qu

Jack, I said "a slim punch". .. and I rode it home. The hammer was small, too. The effect was getting it tight enough to last. .. I did it the right way a few years later, but without that custom wrench. .. don't need it.

[Jack K]

Whoa, Phil. I wasn't polking at you. I well know when one is broke down on the side of the road one has to do what one can with what one has.

I thought I could see where Bugzy was headed and thought I could help. And, I gotta believe neither you, Phil, nor the motorcycle gods were smiling when you were wrenching on the side of the road.

[fillibuster]

Whoa, Phil. I wasn't polking at you. I well know when one is broke down on the side of the road one has to do what one can with what one has.

I thought I could see where Bugzy was headed and thought I could help. And, I gotta believe neither you, Phil, nor the motorcycle gods were smiling when you were wrenching on the side of the road.

Thanks, Jack. Peace, man!
And Bugzy, if you have time and patience, use both as your allies. The rewards are worth it.
Helps too, to ride a few other Chiefs, the ones that run right, to know whether yours is at its best.

[redfred84]

HI Bugzy,
Hopefully it's just the big nut inside the tranny, which retains that Clutch basket. You must have dealt with all of this to address your leaking gen drive bushing? Some of those repro bushing were machined with the spiral going the wrong way; actually directing the oil OUT of the primary! I try and always run a modern seal on the outter edge of this bushing. I prefer the spiral cut bushing to the needle bearing up-date. Sometimes it requires one to actually shorten the bushing to fit the seal though.
On the big clutch basket retaining nut, I like the original style folding lock washer. It was on solid disc, NOT the star-like unit that most of the repros consist of. I find these multi-tanged star-like units to be too brittle, and they tend to work harden & bust off. Lock tite is a god-send in this dept also.
I can't say enough about the aftermarket 4spd OD trans though. I realize cost is an issue, but you throw all these worries away from the stock crash box, and triple the enjoyment of your machine with one of these 4spds, not to mention releave your engine with the OD.
The hammer & blunt chisle method of tightening that big nut is actually best way to get it the tightest. A hammer strike equals way more umph than one could possible administer with the proper wrench & spacer whilst the unit is in the bike.
RF.

[Bugzy]

Hey you guys.........check this out. I pulled the primary outer cover off,all the items in my way on the right side[exhaust,chainguard,etc] and took the tower off. I measured the fluid that came out of the trans[pulled plug out of bottom],and primary. I had 5 ozs! Yikes!!!!!!!! I almost fainted. I pulled the clutch plates out ,checked the left hand threaded nut on basket..Tight. Checked the mainshaft nut, couldn't move it in either direction. Pulled the kicker gear off tried to move the mainshaft to check for end play,probably .005-.010 thousandths everything seems tight. Any thoughts? Thank you all for your time Peace Bugzy p.s the bike clutch never slipped or dragged in the thousand miles I put on it since I originally fixed[?] the gen. drive pulley shaft leak. I don't know where the trans. fluid went since the original leak would paint the side of my bike and I had barely a drop of black oil on my drip pan in the garage overnite? I will be looking and checking my trans/primary weekly NOW!

[redfred84]

Hey Buzy,
It's actually surpising how little oil is actually used in the primary/trans for the stock application. I forget the actual amount, but I alway check the level plug on the outter primary, then top her up with a wee bit more. If you are using up fluid though, and it's not leaking, your engine may be "sucking" it in via a bad cork seal behind the engine sprocket.
Rots a ruck, RF.

[fillibuster]

Hey Buzy,
It's actually surpising how little oil is actually used in the primary/trans for the stock application. I forget the actual amount, but I alway check the level plug on the outter primary, then top her up with a wee bit more. If you are using up fluid though, and it's not leaking, your engine may be "sucking" it in via a bad cork seal behind the engine sprocket.
Rots a ruck, RF.

You didn't say anything about your throw-out bearing (s) either. And be sure to check your end slop on lower gear. I've seen these seize, and cause the end bushings to spin, which wears out the aluminum case housing. .... now's the time to check it all out, refer to manual, and any mr goodwrench's out there.

[redfred84]

So true on the slop of the cluster gear end play, main shaft end play, counter shaft/cluster clearance & ALIGNMENT, and clutch basket end play, not to mention the .150" gap of the pressure plate (best measured with a drill bit). Again, most of this crap can be avoided by using the 4spd/ OD tranny.
What clutch discs are you running? Stock? Greer? King?
RF.

[Bugzy]

Well thanks again you guys ,I didn't check to see if there was any more info/comments untill now,and now I am wondering if I am gonna be o.k. I put the bike back together and THEN checked back here. I will be test riding tomorrow. I called the guy I bought the bike from and to the best of his recollection he believes the clutch came from Greer. How much do I need to be concerned with the fluid being sucked into the motor? Other than keeping an eye on the primary level? I also didn't think to check the throwout bearing. Boy am I feeling like a dummie. I guess the guys that work on em' are busy with all the guys like me that are clueless. I don't even know of anyone in my area that even has/rides an Indian....let alone works on em'! Not to mention I am without funds to pay a shop.........just another broke biker that sunk all I had in the bike. By the way,while I had the header pipe off I checked my valve/lifter tolerances,the rear cylinder valves were about .004" wider than specs,the front intake was the same,but the jam nut felt like when I put the wrench on it was barely tight also around .004" over spec,and the exhaust lifter there was about 1/4" gap and totally loose!!!!!! Could that explain why I was getting what looked like oil coming from around the sparkplug on the front head? All comments are appreciated. Thanks for all your help,guys. Peace Bugzy

[fillibuster]

Well thanks again you guys ,I didn't check to see if there was any more info/comments untill now,and now I am wondering if I am gonna be o.k. I put the bike back together and THEN checked back here. I will be test riding tomorrow. I called the guy I bought the bike from and to the best of his recollection he believes the clutch came from Greer. How much do I need to be concerned with the fluid being sucked into the motor? Other than keeping an eye on the primary level? I also didn't think to check the throwout bearing. Boy am I feeling like a dummie. I guess the guys that work on em' are busy with all the guys like me that are clueless. I don't even know of anyone in my area that even has/rides an Indian....let alone works on em'! Not to mention I am without funds to pay a shop.........just another broke biker that sunk all I had in the bike. By the way,while I had the header pipe off I checked my valve/lifter tolerances,the rear cylinder valves were about .004" wider than specs,the front intake was the same,but the jam nut felt like when I put the wrench on it was barely tight also around .004" over spec,and the exhaust lifter there was about 1/4" gap and totally loose!!!!!! Could that explain why I was getting what looked like oil coming from around the sparkplug on the front head? All comments are appreciated. Thanks for all your help,guys. Peace Bugzy

Bugz, join your nearest chapter, attend the next meeting, bring the bike, buy the beer, make friends, and seek like minds who wish you success. Don't be afraid to ask for help, but do attempt to turn the wrenches yourself. .. and show up early!
How's that, RF? was that good?