AMF = bad Harley?

[Barry Brown]

Just Read The Book "well Made In America" The Whole Story Is In There.

[T. Cotten]

I still drive a 1973 Datsun pickup.

Those were the days..

*sigh*...


....Cotten

[HarleyCreation]

Late pre-AMF

It shouldn't be overlooked that pre-AMF Harley-Davidson was not in the greatest shape either. The Juneau plant was old and inefficient. Tooling and machinery was old and worn out. Things were still done like they had been in the 1910s-20s. The shareholders didn't want to put much money into plant infrastructure. And of course at that time the general sentiment was: "You meet the nicest people on a Honda and the biggest a#3fx2$%& on a Harley."

The fight over H-D by AMF and other concerns plus the in-company anger and resentment is one of the last untold stories. It got ugly and nasty with good guys and bad guys and a very good story.

[Chris in Japan]

Knowing almost nothing about that period, Herbert, your statement makes perfect sense to me.

A hand out of the lead to AMF was certainly not done because of a golden period at that time. Deep and substantial problems may have been present.

Kind regards.

Chris.

[Barry Brown]

back in the late 70's I bought the 13th from the last Velocette Thruxton , a 1971 model put together just before the factory closed forever. It had a mere 1100 miles on it and after checking it out before starting ( it had been parked for about 8 years) it was obvious that the rocker arms had been machined incorrectly and were hitting each other a mistake that would have been unheard of in any earlier Velocette, a company noted for high quality. An expatriate Brit at the time surmised it was probably assembled thusly out of spite. once this and a few other glitches were sorted it revealed itself to be a great machine. Maybe there was some sabotage at Harley as well during the AMF tenure

[Chris Haynes]

As Herb pointed out H-D's factory and tooling was outdated. The company was making record profits at the time but needed a lot more to upgrade the company. Many suitors tried to become H-D's partner but it was AMF who was already in the recreation business got the job.
AMF poured a lot of money into H-D. But then they became complacent. While trying to lower their overhead they decided to let H-D suffer. Cutbacks in quality control and R&D almost put the company out of business.
It was at this time, in the Spring of 1981, that I was applying for an H-D franchise. I was on the plane for Milwaukee when I noticed the article the guy seated next to me was reading in "The Wall Street Journal". The headline was "Honda Buys Harley-Davidson". I about crapped my pants. Of course when I got to Juneau Ave. I was assured that the article was incorrect. But that is how close things got. H-D was faltering and the rumors in the industry were unbelieveable. Thanks to the thirteen individuals that hocked everything they owned to buy the MoCo from AMF it is still here today.

[PRG]

Howdy Chaps,

Though much in to Indians, Vincents and other distractions now, my two remaining old shovels, still loved, though not ridden nearly as often as they should be come from the AMF era (the long gone 83 FXR had alloy surfaces finished like a fine watch ,ran superbly and can't be compared to these).

I bought the 77 FLH - TheFatster - here in 1987 about a week before m/c riding became very popular to the masses from an HD dealer for the princely sum of $2,500. They were literally 10grand a week later.

With the exception of an unsuccessfull application of black pearl paint (consistency of soft rubber floor tile from not having cured), which I would guess was an improvement over its stock brown metallic paint (!) it was bone stock at 12k miles complete with red jeweled rocker box nuts. But, it was positively filthy from the front of the rear cylinder to the taillight. Upon disassembly I discovered that the (disgruntled) assembler had slammed the inner primary home sheering off one third of the o-ring at the engine case spigot. Machines of this era vented through the primary so this one was a leaker from day one. Apparently expectations of HD products of this era were low enough this was exceptable and never fixed. That repaired and the usual sealed gland nut at the drive sprocket and it remains dry to this day....albeit as the top end has succumbed to hot riding conditions down here.

On my 81 Sturgis here, the much lauded move to electronic ignition resulted in a unit sourced from Magnavox which, besides resulting in a very stepped advance feed because of a minimal bit processor also had a tendency to be hard on the stock ignition coil. Not in a way that was readily discernible as being that, mind you, if you taxed your spark with increased compression and then obscured that cam and other mods you didn't know what the problem was. A stop light drag race resulting in a bit of detonation on the rear cylinder, subsequet head gasket failure and a thoroughly burnt left calf hastened a change to the evo ignition upgrade and this thing now runs like a top.

Like late Norton Commando's, these shovels just needed a thorough going over to be as usable as anything else, and with loads of character to boot.

[PRG]

Howdy Chaps,

Though much in to Indians, Vincents and other distractions now, my two remaining old shovels, still loved, though not ridden nearly as often as they should be come from the AMF era (the long gone 83 FXR had alloy surfaces finished like a fine watch ,ran superbly and can't be compared to these).

I bought the 77 FLH - TheFatster - here in 1987 about a week before m/c riding became very popular to the masses from an HD dealer for the princely sum of $2,500. They were literally 10grand a week later.

With the exception of an unsuccessfull application of black pearl paint (consistency of soft rubber floor tile from not having cured), which I would guess was an improvement over its stock brown metallic paint (!) it was bone stock at 12k miles complete with red jeweled rocker box nuts. But, it was positively filthy from the front of the rear cylinder to the taillight. Upon disassembly I discovered that the (disgruntled) assembler had slammed the inner primary home sheering off one third of the o-ring at the engine case spigot. Machines of this era vented through the primary so this one was a leaker from day one. Apparently expectations of HD products of this era were low enough this was exceptable and never fixed. That repaired and the usual sealed gland nut at the drive sprocket and it remains dry to this day....allthough very noisy as it's never been apart and a short spell with a piece of duct tape obscuring the oil feed 15 years ago (don't ask) was not offset sufficiently by a liberal dose of STP.

On my 81 Sturgis here, the much lauded move to electronic ignition resulted in a unit sourced from Magnavox which, besides resulting in a very stepped advance feed because of a minimal bit processor also had a tendency to be hard on the stock ignition coil. Not in a way that was readily discernible as being that, mind you, if you taxed your spark with increased compression and then obscured that cam and other mods you didn't know what the problem was. A stop light drag race resulting in a bit of detonation on the rear cylinder, subsequet head gasket failure and a thoroughly burnt left calf hastened a change to the evo ignition upgrade and this thing now runs like a top.

Like late Norton Commando's, these shovels just needed a thorough going over to be as usable as anything else, and with loads of character to boot.

[PRG]

Howdy Chaps,

Though much in to Indians, Vincents and other distractions now, my two remaining old shovels, still loved, though not ridden nearly as often as they should be come from the AMF era (the long gone 83 FXR had alloy surfaces finished like a fine watch ,ran superbly and can't be compared to these).

I bought the 77 FLH - TheFatster - here in 1987 about a week before m/c riding became very popular to the masses from an HD dealer for the princely sum of $2,500. They were literally 10grand a week later.

With the exception of an unsuccessfull application of black pearl paint (consistency of soft rubber floor tile from not having cured), which I would guess was an improvement over its stock brown metallic paint (!) it was bone stock at 12k miles complete with red jeweled rocker box nuts. But, it was positively filthy from the front of the rear cylinder to the taillight. Upon disassembly I discovered that the (disgruntled) assembler had slammed the inner primary home sheering off one third of the o-ring at the engine case spigot. Machines of this era vented through the primary so this one was a leaker from day one. Apparently expectations of HD products of this era were low enough this was exceptable and never fixed. That repaired and the usual sealed gland nut at the drive sprocket and it remains dry to this day....albeit as the top end has succumbed to hot riding conditions down here.

On my 81 Sturgis here, the much lauded move to electronic ignition resulted in a unit sourced from Magnavox which, besides resulting in a very stepped advance feed because of a minimal bit processor also had a tendency to be hard on the stock ignition coil. Not in a way that was readily discernible as being that, mind you, if you taxed your spark with increased compression and then obscured that cam and other mods you didn't know what the problem was. A stop light drag race resulting in a bit of detonation on the rear cylinder, subsequet head gasket failure and a thoroughly burnt left calf hastened a change to the evo ignition upgrade and this thing now runs like a top.

Like late Norton Commando's, these shovels just needed a thorough going over to be as usable as anything else, and with loads of character to boot.

[PRG]

Howdy Chaps,

Though much in to Indians, Vincents and other distractions now, my two remaining old shovels, still loved, though not ridden nearly as often as they should be come from the AMF era (the long gone 83 FXR had alloy surfaces finished like a fine watch ,ran superbly and can't be compared to these).

I bought the 77 FLH - TheFatster - here in 1987 about a week before m/c riding became very popular to the masses from an HD dealer for the princely sum of $2,500. They were literally 10grand a week later.

With the exception of an unsuccessfull application of black pearl paint (consistency of soft rubber floor tile from not having cured), which I would guess was an improvement over its stock brown metallic paint (!) it was bone stock at 12k miles complete with red jeweled rocker box nuts. But, it was positively filthy from the front of the rear cylinder to the taillight. Upon disassembly I discovered that the (disgruntled) assembler had slammed the inner primary home sheering off one third of the o-ring at the engine case spigot. Machines of this era vented through the primary so this one was a leaker from day one. Apparently expectations of HD products of this era were low enough this was exceptable and never fixed. That repaired and the usual sealed gland nut at the drive sprocket and it remains dry to this day....though in bad need of a rebuild now.

On my 81 Sturgis here, the much lauded move to electronic ignition resulted in a unit sourced from Magnavox which, besides resulting in a very stepped advance feed because of a minimal bit processor also had a tendency to be hard on the stock ignition coil. Not in a way that was readily discernible as being that, mind you, if you taxed your spark with increased compression and then obscured that cam and other mods you didn't know what the problem was. A stop light drag race resulting in a bit of detonation on the rear cylinder, subsequet head gasket failure and a thoroughly burnt left calf hastened a change to the evo ignition upgrade and this thing now runs like a top.

Like late Norton Commando's, these shovels just needed a thorough going over to be as usable as anything else, and with loads of character to

[Rooster]

The fight over H-D by AMF and other concerns plus the in-company anger and resentment is one of the last untold stories. It got ugly and nasty with good guys and bad guys and a very good story.

Mr. Wagner, I recently finished reading your excellent book "At The Creation", and was so impressed I rushed out and ordered your book "Harley-Davidson 1930-1941". I must say "At The Creation" solidly explains the facts about the very beginning of the MoCo, and I greatly appreciate your work.
Now... how about that AMF story--- seems to be most folks (present company excluded) are un-informed or at best ill-informed as to the facts surrounding the aquisition of HD by AMF. Any thoughts of a new book? (You don't have to answer the question....... )

[s/l]

Hi,

Too late to comment? Well, in my limited experience it seems that
quite a number of AMF Harleys were assembled in a big rush. The
few I've been into appear to have been assembled by apes who
were not aware of proper assembly proceedures. Bad balance
jobs, improper clearances ect. Each time I resolved the problems
by disassembly, replacing damaged parts and assembly by the
book (Harley Shop Manual). The factory used good materials but
their quality control was absent and they didn't follow their own
shop proceedures...... Once you correct the deficiencies and
properly reassemble your bike will run like a clock and dependable
as a steel ball.

[INLINE4NUT]

Ive had many many Harleys and some of them, lots of them, were AMF era, They all with the exception of an XLCH ran flawlessly!! And the only problem with it was the kickstart gear slipping (anybody that had one knows the drill !! ) I also feel if AMF would not have taken over,well who really knows, but they did and HD is still here ! If they are not careful they may be on the brink again !!!

[Chris Haynes]

Inlinefour. You repeating the incorrect statement that H-D was on the brink. This false. They were enjoying record profits and needed a partner to help them expand. When they were on the brink is when the new company bought themselves from AMF. It was close then, but they turned things around and so far are still with us. Hopefully they will survive this downturn in the economy.

[RichO]

AMF

HD was using wornout machinery, they were down on capitol, bike design was staggnet. AmF was sold a bill of goods that HD was in good shape. Why AMF finally gave it up was because their stockholders wanted to stop the bleeding. It cost them a fortune to retool, new designs, upgrades. The family bought it back when it was ready to take off again. They had been working for AMF all along. It didn't help that HD's works union problems almost brought AMF to a screeching halt soon after they aquired HD. Amf SAVED HD and never gets their proper due.