65 FLH King of the Highway fit and finish

[JSB55]

Hmmm... good idea about checking the stack height, since I have all new discs.

The springs are identical to those I took out, but ya, I should probably measure them against the book spec. Pretty sure orange is the standard spring, but I need to check that, too.

John

[portagepan]

The stack height of the discs should be right on the money, before they are installed. I don't know about colored springs, but the soft stock ones are good for me. Tried some others, but I could barely move the lever after I put them in. Tried 50/50, but they were still too stiff. Just stock for me.
Mike

[JSB55]

Thanks, Magic.

I did do new plates and clutch springs, but the booster, rod, and arm are unchanged, and I don't see it binding anywhere.

I've loosened it all up and redone several times, but can't seem to get away from the short travel at the hand lever, and the need for a gorilla to pull on it.

The clutch springs are the short, fat, orange ones (as were the tired ones I removed), but your comments make me think I should pull out and reinstall the disc pack, since even though it appears it is moving normally within the shell, it may be binding in a way that I'm not seeing.

[Magic]

If the parts are the same and stock it'll work again

You going to have to go back over everything involved in setting up the Clutch linkage and mounting of the Spring Booster as well. If it worked ok before hand and no parts were changed in the complete system it should work normally again which is a smooth disengage and engage of the clutch. Is the Clutch itself still all stock setup and hopefully not hitting the inside of the Primary when it stops on you. Feel with you fingers for the area that causes the Stopped lever if possible, when I say that ofcourse I do mean be carefull with the booster setup. Have someone work the clutch lever as you feel and look at all the moving parts closely. LOL I've never been bitten yet...Goodluck you'll get it right. Merli n in Pa.

[JSB55]

Clutch Adjustment

Hi,Guys -

After two months, I finally have my motor back with the correct left flywheel and sprocket shaft installed, and everything now lines up, and of course now the outer primary cover actually fits.

I am wondering about my clutch setup, however.

I have the plate tightened down to give me the requisite 31/32 spring height, and adjusted the mousetrap per the book, although I found the instructions less than clear when working with a completely disassembled setup and may not have it entirely correct.

The end result is a clutch lever with only about 1" to 1 1/2" of travel when pulled, and it's a very hard pull that still doesn't get the lever anywhere near the hand grip.

By contrast, my Shovel and Evo clutches are much easier to pull, and the lever travels from fully extended to nearly contacting the hand grip. Both of those plus the Pan have the lever set to travel roughly 1/2" before starting to move the clutch.

Is the short travel and hard pull on my 65 typical for a mousetrap, or do I have something mis-adjusted? I did ride the bike before tearing it down, but it's been so long I can't remember for sure how the clutch felt before, although I seem to recall it having a feel similar to the clutches on my Shovel and Evo.

Any info appreciated, and especially some hints as to where the problem is if I'm out of adjustment.

Thanks!

John

[JSB55]

So, things get curiouser and curiouser...

In spite of the above discussion, and documentation that clearly says the 70+ mainshaft is needed with a 70-71 sprocket shaft for correct chain alignment, after opening everything up and measuring, it turns out my motor guy did indeed put a 70-71 sprocket shaft back in (that's what the previous owner had put in the motor), but the trans mainshaft is, in fact, a 65-69.

Looks like it's all going to line up again when it goes back together, as the inner sleeve for the compensator, which determines sprocket location, ends up in the same spot regardless of whether you use the 65-69 sprocket shaft, or the 70-71, at least when used with a -65 inner primary. Like me, unless you measure it, you don't realize that someone has put in the wrong sprocket shaft until you try to put the outer primary cover over the compensator.

Needless to say, it's all torn back down again for installation of the correct sprocket shaft, but at least I don't have to swap out the trans mainshaft as well.

[JSB55]

COOL - thanks, Perry!

You might know - my pushrod measures 13 3/4, which is right between the 13 5/8 listed for 65-69 and 14" listed for 70-71.

[Perry Ruiter]

While we're at it, can anybody tell me if there is an easy way to tell the -70 trans mainshaft from the earlier one without tearing things all apart and measuring (and where I can find the dimensions documented)?

Year ago, Easyriders published the attached chart ... Perry

[JSB55]

While we're at it, can anybody tell me if there is an easy way to tell the -70 trans mainshaft from the earlier one without tearing things all apart and measuring (and where I can find the dimensions documented)?

[JSB55]

Thanks for that, Rooster.

Waiting for parts, and waiting for other people (to refurbish the motor, for example) has stretched this project to 18 months from initial tear-down to this point. I have what I consider a perfect replica paint job, all new fasteners thanks to Old Dude, a fully restored Linkert, redone chrome and cad in all the right places, etc, etc, etc.

Now when I thought I was a few hours from the first ride to break things in, I discover this too long sprocket shaft, which I never noticed until I tried to put the cover on.

In retrospect, I recall wondering why the previous owner had a shovel outer primary, but I thought he just liked chrome, since he had also painted the motor blue, painted all the fasteners black, and done a lot of other "custom" (ahem) touches. Now I finally understand why the shovel outer cover was there.

To make matters worse, a little research proves that Rub's knowledge is in fact encyclopedic on the matter. Palmer makes no real mention of this issue, but "What Fits What on HD" talks about the fact that the 70-71 sprocket shaft (as well as the 72 which probably would not retrofit to 60s era flywheels) is normally used with a -70 trans mainshaft for chain alignment, and since my alignment appears perfect, it appears the former owner changed both the sprocket shaft and mainshaft to -70 for who knows what reason.

Ah, well...

*sigh*


.

[Rooster]

Wow, what a shame, JSB.
I'm not going to comment on the technical aspect, I don't know anyone that knows this stuff any better than Robbie, and that's no joke. The late panhead-early shovelhead years are a 'gray zone' in my area of experience anyway... (I 'know' what I ride, and I ride a panhead and a later-70's shovelhead.)
But my comment really is this---- if your motor builder is worth his salt, he will tear that motor down and install the correct sprocket shaft, at no charge. Or at least very minimal charge, such as paying for gaskets. All the machine work has been done, so it would be a simple matter of dissassembly and reassembly. Yes, the flywheels will need to be split, and re-trued upon assembly. If it was my motor, I would rather have it done when everything was fresh before it was ever fired up, rather than wait 18 months.

If I may share this story-----
Years ago, my riding partner and I had our shovelhead motors rebuilt by a guy who was new to our area and we were just getting to know. We had him do our motors as a step in faith, having never really dealt with the guy before. When we headed out on our first trip, after an initial breal-in period, we were consuming oil at an alarming rate, like a quart every 250-300 miles!
When we got back, we talked to our motor guy. He admitted he set up the tolerances a little loose, as he didn't think we would break the motors in properly, he thought we would go right out and spank them hard.
So what did he do? Went all the way through both motors again, setting them up per specification, and what did he charge us? Zero. That's what called "integrity". Ben got all our work and all our friends work after that.
I'm sorry to have added little technical value to this thread, JSB, but I would have a serious and emotionless discussion with your motor guy. It's one thing to be able to rectify the situation now, but after 18 months people's memory can fade.........

[silentgreyfello]

1914-1965 footboard mats were rivited.

They didn't rivet in 1914-1916.

[JSB55]

To clarify the above further:

The splined shaft far left in my photo slides over the sprocket shaft, mates with its splines, and bottoms against the shoulder on the sprocket shaft, which is the same distance from the flywheel 55 through the 70s. Oddly enough, I don't see that outer shaft listed anywhere in my parts books, but it has a thin spacer behind it (in my case either integral to that outer shaft, or welded to it by age) such that when all is buttoned up, the chain is aligned.

The sprocket portion of the compensator then indexes over the outer shaft, and bottoms against it's shoulder, and is followed by the outer part of the compensator, spring, and finally the "nut". There is also an outer spacer that covers the splined area at the very outside of the inner shaft that would otherwise be exposed, and provides a place for the "nut" to bottom, if I could ever get it that tight (I can't manually).

Since the smooth part of the sprocket shaft is the critical part as to chain location, I'm not visualizing how the transmission mainshaft comes into play.

And in my admittedly fogged mental state, it seems to me that the splined area on the sprocket shaft and outer sleeve being too long affects only how tightly I can crank down the "nut", and thus load the spring, but I can't visualize how it affects where the chain is (that seems to be controlled by the spacer closest to the engine case - unless low tension on the spring allows the whole mechanism to slide back and forth, thus moving the chain around).

Regardless, however, I need to know whether it's safe to run as is with a shovel outer cover, in case I decide to go that route rather than tear it all down again now after 18 months of building it to where it is.

John

[JSB55]

Hmmm... maybe I am still missing something.

Looking at the photos in Palmer, it appears that the flywheel end of the various sprocket shafts from 55 into the 70s are identical in length. The smooth area on the inner part of the shaft seems to be the same length for all years, whereas the splined area is longer beginning in 70, and the threaded end possibly a tad longer also.

The motor sprocket slides all the way onto the smooth part of the sprocket shaft, and the clutch hub all the way onto the trans shaft, so I don't see why some extra length on the *outer* ends would affect chain alignment, which is determined by how far the chain is from the *inner* end of the respective shafts (thus the need for spacers).

I *do*, however, see how the extra length could affect the functioning of the compensator, since the spring is not loaded as much as when the shaft is shorter, and the nut consequently compressing it more.

My main concern at this point is whether I can ride it this way for now, and in documenting the error to the motor builder now, so I don't end up paying him again later to fix his own error in installing the too long sprocket shaft.

John

[Rubone]

You should be able to do that if the chainline is indeed correct. And if it is correct with that long engine shaft, then you most likely have a '70 and later transmission mainshaft as well! Otherwise you clutch hub, clutch shell assembly would be sitting much deeper than your engine shaft. Sounds like a major project when you get ready to do it right!
Robbie