More '65 Pan Help Please...

[panz4ever]

I have an original paint 65 with low miles. When I got it it was very hard to start. I discovered that my 65 had no starter relay. Does anyone know when it appeared from the factory? I found an nos kit that the factory sold later to upgrade 65's with the relay. I think it had a 66 part number. If I ever had my 65 judged I would probably get dinged for the relay but at least I can get it started now.

HD service Bulletin #551, 02/20/67... beginning 02/13-67 Electra Glides incorporate a relay in the starter control. The kit was available from the factory for $6.30. The part number 71451-65. The kit was recommended for use on early Electra Glides, especially where starting circuit trouble has been experienced.

So I would suggest that you could probably have it and not get beaned to badly

[Chris Haynes]

HD service Bulletin #551, 02/20/67... beginning 02/13-67 Electra Glides incorporate a relay in the starter control. The kit was available from the factory for $6.30. The part number 71451-65. The kit was recommended for use on early Electra Glides, especially where starting circuit trouble has been experienced.

So I would suggest that you could probably have it and not get beaned to badly

Even if you got dinged it would maybe be 1/4 point. You could always remove it for judging.

[cdndewey]

I don't know when chrome pipes became available, but I do know they could be had in 1962, according to my 62 Accessory Catalog. You could get everything in chrome except for the squash pipe and the front pipe. I believe I typed all the info from this on a previous thread.

[Zedder]

Update: I had been working with a representative of the owner and finally got to talk to the owner yesterday. I called to set-up an appt to hear the bike run etc. I had been told that the bike was completely restored, motor done etc. Well, it turns out the motor "might have been done" prior to the current owner getting it 14 years ago and that they "restored" the bike with the drivetrain still in the frame. The motor hadn't been started since it was restored, but it "ran great 14 years ago..." So, I am passing on this one. Oh well, back to the drawing board! Thanks again for all of your help.

[Chris Haynes]

I don't know when chrome pipes became available, but I do know they could be had in 1962, according to my 62 Accessory Catalog. You could get everything in chrome except for the squash pipe and the front pipe. I believe I typed all the info from this on a previous thread.

Although they had chrome pipes, they were covered with chrome flex covers.

[rbenash]

'65 Floorboards were 1/2 moon, not D style. 65 was last year for 1/2 Moon. 66 was first year for the D boards.

[cdndewey]

Although they had chrome pipes, they were covered with chrome flex covers.

If you were running duals I don't think the rear would have had a flex pipe covering, only the front, so that nice chrome rear pipe would be out in the open to be seen.

[rbenash]

That is an incorrect statement.
Chrome pipes were not a part of The King Of The Highway Group. If you ordered the King Group you also had to order the Chrome Finish Group. The Chrome Finish Group included EXHAUST PIPE COVERS, CHROME, but not chrome pipes.

Thanks for the post Chris! Yes, so since King Group had to have Chrome Group I often make the error of stating it came with King Group. My error (again).

Side topic, not refuting anything. Got me wondering about the chrome pipes though. Especially the ones that are NOS with the correct PN for an extra quiet fishtail dual exhaust '65 that are OEM/factory markings or stickers and are chrome when they "should" be silver. Seems as though chrome exhaust parts might have been available? For example 65496-61, 65538-65, 65440-48, 65496-61 etc. See these at the meets for sale also have a set I collected over the years. In fact I've seen more NOS chrome OEM marked pieces of these parts than NOS OEM silver, which is odd. I would expect to see more NOS OEM silver of these parts than chrome if that was the standard and chrome wasn't available.

Harley just switch to chroming these replacement parts at some point I wonder?

[Chris Haynes]

Thanks for the post Chris! Yes, so since King Group had to have Chrome Group I often make the error of stating it came with King Group. My error (again).

Side topic, not refuting anything. Got me wondering about the chrome pipes though. Especially the ones that are NOS with the correct PN for an extra quiet fishtail dual exhaust '65 that are OEM/factory markings or stickers and are chrome when they "should" be silver. Seems as though chrome exhaust parts might have been available? For example 65496-61, 65538-65, 65440-48, 65496-61 etc. See these at the meets for sale also have a set I collected over the years. In fact I've seen more NOS chrome OEM marked pieces of these parts than NOS OEM silver, which is odd. I would expect to see more NOS OEM silver of these parts than chrome if that was the standard and chrome wasn't available.

Harley just switch to chroming these replacement parts at some point I wonder?

The NOS pipes you find with part numbers on them are not production parts. They are replacement parts. Production parts don't have part numbers on them. For example 65496-61 & 65496-61 are not found in the 1961 parts catalogue, 65538-65 is not found in the 1965 FL Parts catalogue. Later accessory catalogues list chrome pipes. But they were not used in production in 1965. Often times replacement parts differ from those used during production. Espically if they were made after that years ptoduction.
Some examples I have had are NOS 1941-1946 Knuck gas tanks. Made with Panhead outers and Knuck inner's wit a little extra piece welded at the bottom of the dash cutout as the Panhead cutout was longer that the Knuck. 1934-1936 VL front fender with post war fender struts. 1936-1940 EL/Fl and 45" mufflers with the post war type shoulder on the front of the muffler. Sadly the repop muffler guy made his repop mufflers like the post war replacements so they are not correct. Late 1940's replacement heads for 1936-1939 Knuck's which are actually Big Port castings with a reducer nipple in the intake port to fit the Small Port manifolds.

[rbenash]

The NOS pipes you find with part numbers on them are not production parts. They are replacement parts. Production parts don't have part numbers on them. For example 65496-61 & 65496-61 are not found in the 1961 parts catalogue, 65538-65 is not found in the 1965 FL Parts catalogue. Later accessory catalogues list chrome pipes. But they were not used in production in 1965. Often times replacement parts differ from those used during production. Espically if they were made after that years ptoduction.
Some examples I have had are NOS 1941-1946 Knuck gas tanks. Made with Panhead outers and Knuck inner's wit a little extra piece welded at the bottom of the dash cutout as the Panhead cutout was longer that the Knuck. 1934-1936 VL front fender with post war fender struts. 1936-1940 EL/Fl and 45" mufflers with the post war type shoulder on the front of the muffler. Sadly the repop muffler guy made his repop mufflers like the post war replacements so they are not correct. Late 1940's replacement heads for 1936-1939 Knuck's which are actually Big Port castings with a reducer nipple in the intake port to fit the Small Port manifolds.

Very interesting, thanks Chris. Yeah that makes sense that they are factory replacements and not production parts. Still wonder though whether HD made silver painted replacement parts at all then. Or if all replacement exhaust parts with those numbers were chrome. In the 58-68 reprint parts catalog I have there's no additional listing for finish type for those parts as in painted, chrome, etc.

Another interesting point regarding my bike is that the exhaust on this bike was always full chrome, not painted parts as long as I've known it. And I have been around the bike since 1968. Before that the first owner had it whom I never met or saw the bike during that time. Something happened between 65-68 then. Would assume that the first owner at some point swapped the painted parts out for HD replacement chrome.

[Chris Haynes]

Still wonder though whether HD made silver painted replacement parts at all then.

Yes, they did.
I have also found this. They list "Muffler and all fittings. Chrome." I am wondering what "all fittings" is.

[bmh]

I believe the listing "Muffler and all fiitings" to mean the entire exhaust system by the years and fitments listed. "Muffler rear end complete less exhaust pipes" would be just the muffler and clamps.

[rbenash]

Yes, they did.
I have also found this. They list "Muffler and all fittings. Chrome." I am wondering what "all fittings" is.

Wow, that's key. Almost wish I was there looking at the same docs and buying you a beer (or two).