Panhead Oil sumping

[sieber60]

On my 54', oil started passing by the seat in my oil pump. I know it's not uncommon, however, I have never had this problem on this bike. I used a burnishing to tool to try get the ball to re-seat and replaced the ball and spring and I 'm still having the problem. Any thoughts on a fix?

Thanks
John

[dukekleman]

John,

1) Have you made any recent changes to your motor oil?
Brand, viscosity, etc...

2) Have you experienced any recent fuel system issues?
Float, needle, seat, etc...

3) Does this occur when parked only?
Or Also when running?

Duke

[sieber60]

No changes to oil... still running 60 weight.

No fuel problems.

Only occurs after sitting.

[otis71]

I’ve tried burnishing (also have heard burnishing or lapping can be detrimental because the lapping compound adds thickness) and tapping ball into seat as the manual suggests with only sporadic success. I then read about Baltec which supplies industry with tools to seat ball valves. I bought a 3/8” tool that I have only used once but it’s been 100% so far. Give them a call and they can steer you in the right direction on which grit is best for your application. Keep in mind you generally only have to lightly dress the seat and to avoid getting excessive.

[sieber60]

When using the Baltec tool were you able to use it with the oil pump in place without contaminating to system?

[sieber60]

Do you know which Baltec you called? There are a couple Baltec companies. I am assuming it's the Baltec Precision Balls.

[BigLakeBob]

This is a very opinionated subject, but I'll dive in with another concept. I do not believe it is always the ball/ seat. I believe if the pump drive shaft is worn or the pump is worn where the shaft rides in the pump, oil could bypass here, run into the return gear side and back into the cam chest. That area is lower than the ball and oil could travel that way 1st. I had my cam cover off for several weeks for repairs this spring and I could see the cavity slowly filling with oil, it was not running out the cover feed hole and down the side.

What was the reason HD added a seal in that shaft/ pump contact area during the aluminum pump shovel years?

I have always had good luck with lapping the ball seat, others strongly disagree with that practice.

[T. Cotten]

You Folks could save lot time and tail-chasing with a simple search, y'know....

If you ain't bench-testing, you don't know if you are fixing it, or boogering it:

https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/bboard/forum/technical-discussions-harley-davidson/pan-heads/23821-oil-pump-check-valve

https://forum.antiquemotorcycle.org/...ting-ball-seat

Etc., etc., etc.

Once the leakage is visible, you will know which kind of abuse really works; I lost $$$ and uncounted hours on every barnyard technique, even the burnishers I developed with moderate success, because everything after a simple flat-grind makes it worse.

Unless you are bench-testing, you must wait weeks to see the result.

....Cotten

[sieber60]

Thanks all for them input. I will take all into consideration. Currently I am using the if you're not riding it often drain the oil. This is probably why a lot of people put an aftermarket pump on to eliminate losing oil at 13.00 plus $$ a quart and oiling down the driveway.

[T. Cotten]

... This is probably why a lot of people put an aftermarket pump on to eliminate losing oil at 13.00 plus $$ a quart and oiling down the driveway.

Maybe, Sieber,...

But considering the cost of an iffy aftermarket pump, plus paying a pro to install it, plus the depreciation of a Mona Lisa by adding a moustache, paying an outrageous and unnecessary $13.00 plus $$ a quart means you have money to burn.

Please read my posts, and you will see I never said they couldn't be fixed.

I am merely warning against further folly of barnyard methods.

....Cotten
PS: If the home owner's association complains about your driveway, and cardboard or a spllI tray is just too much trouble, I'd park in the street.

[sieber60]

Don't misunderstand... I'm not going with an aftermarket pump. I will put the effort into making this one or another one that I have work. The moustache just wouldn't look right, and a homeowner's association wouldn't have me either. I will do further testing and post when I have results.... Stay tuned.

John

[BigLakeBob]

I'll chime in again, hope I don't get the keyboard lashing too bad. In regards to my prior post #7.
In comparison to gravity oil travel. Let's say the drive shaft in the pump has .001 total clearance. Now let's say the pinion bushing to shaft has .001 total clearance. The oil is lower in the bottom of the oil pump than the pinion bushing in the cover. So, with the ball always leaking theory. The oil has to leak past the ball which is under spring pressure, flow thru the case, if on jiffy stand its an up hill travel, (though still lower than the oil tank), then down the cam cover, then flow around the bushing clearance into the cam cavity. Or if less clearance, it has to travel to the pinion hole, then down the shaft to the flywheel where if on the upstoke the crank will be higher than the oil pump, then even harder to escape and fill the lower end. So my theory/ question is which is the quicker or easier flow of oil, thru the lower oil pump drive shaft into the return cavity or up past the check ball? Just looking at a different perspective to the problem in case the well traveled path to solve this could be improved or solved. Again, my cavity gained oil without the cam cover on, explain this to me.
Any thoughts?

[T. Cotten]

You are absolutely right, Bob!

Never does only one thing go wrong at a time.

Sidevalves suffer also at the pump drive bushing, if I remember right.

....Cotten

[otis71]

The one I’m having success with is an early XL pump which are more problematic because the vertical shaft runs right into the breather. I cut a second shaft seal in and used the lapping ball. It’s been bench testing mounted on the motor on my bench for about a month with the crankcase absolutely dry so far.
Bal-Tec in Los Angeles 800-5832.

[otis71]

800-322-5832