Basic oil leak points

[brooksds]

Hi all,

I bought my first panhead ('64 FLH) last summer, but a back injury has kept me out of the garage. I'm starting to feel a little more mobile, and have stripped the tins off and had the paintwork done. Before I put them back on, I'd like to address anything I might need to get to on the engine.

The most obvious "problem" (though I know to expect this) is the oil leaking. I have a Blitz drip pan underneath the bike, but over the last 3 months it has probably dropped 2 quarts of oil, even though it has not been run since the summer. The entire bottom of the engine is coated, and thus far I've not been able to do a time-lapse check on where the origin points are. I figure that most Panheads have common points of leakage, so I may as well find out about all of them so I can address them at one time.

While I know there are no perfect fixes, I would like to know those most common points, and the best fixes. Primary gasket? O-rings? Are there better, aftermarket gaskets that control leakage better than the factory ones did? Can surfaces be machined to sit more flush?

If there is already some sort of newbie primer that covers this, my apologies for not finding it...I did a search under "Panhead Leak" and it returned only three threads.

Best,

Dallas

[T. Cotten]

Dallas!

Aside from all the expected sweating and drools from tired gaskets and such, the most common complaint of oil-from- the-primary is a result of 'sumping': Over time, oil naturally seeps past the ball check in the oilpump to fill the crankcases, and eventually dump into the primary through the sprocketshaft 'slinger'.

If the machine is used regularly, this is never a problem. But if a worn ballcheck seeps freely and the cases fill within a few weeks of sitting, then a mess, smoking, and maybe even fouled plugs soon after started can be expected.

The alternatives are either to ride a lot,..or drain the oil while stored,.. or burnish the ballcheck seat for an ideal seal.

...Cotten

[krb]

oil leaks

also check if you have cast oil pumps the return line at the pump both of my pans had hair line fractures that while wintering would drool alot of oil along the bottom of the cases

[INLINE4NUT]

Alais!!! Old Harleys dont leak....they mark their spot!!!!!!

[krb]

if they aren't leaking they are empty, but ya got to love em. i ride mine over to arrowsic on a regular basis are you near there.

[INLINE4NUT]

not sure where arrowsic is???but I bet Ive been there,explain please!But I have been to center harbor many times,bought a MC rite downtowm from a realestate man,rite across from the lake ! nice ride down 25 through freedom and all,go that way to the weirs sometimes

[Chopperdave]

Hey Cotton!

How the hell are ya?

hope all is good for ya these days.
my question is, have you had good luck burnishing the seat?
i have only done it once and it didnt really seem to make much of a difference, as most of them seats that are bad are WAY too bad to repair that way!

but i have been successfull resetting the seat with later model ones with a pushrod, even tho i would rather just replace the pump body, but not everybody wants to do that!

[krb]

inline

arrowssic is outside of bath down 127 to georgtown i have a place ther. you must of bought from ulm the realestate guy? email at ballance @ metrocast.net

[T. Cotten]

ChopperDave!

I'm surviving, but still searching for someone to take over Liberty's motor and chassis departments.

My success rate with burnishing isn't always 100%, but it is always an improvement, and those times it is perfect still astounds me. To have a Knuck come back for spring service after sitting for a Chicago winter and still have a full four quarts in the oiltank was a shock.

Of course, I have tried lapping, cutters, even teflon balls in the past. Burnishing is not only the most efficient, it is the fastest and cleanest approach: Most pumps do not even need to be removed.

When inspection on the bench shows peculiar damage to the seat, from punching or whatever, I use a piloted conical stone first, by hand. Some rusted extremes even required attacking the well with an endmill on the Bridgeport in order to narrow the seat, just like a motorvalve.

Attached is a pic of a burnisher and the piloted stone; Beware of course, that if the casting has been cracked by a savage beating with a punch some time in its long life, nothing short of a seat insert would save it.


....Cotten

[djohnson]

I've found after years of cleaning up puddles that my 63 pan only sumps if I fail to warm it up thoroughly before shutting it off. If I ride it for several miles and park it it doesn't, but if I start it and shut it down right away it does. I think the ball will not seat if the oil is thick and cold, but if it is warm, the ball will seat properly. That has worked for me, even when cleaning the seating surface and replacing the spring hasn't.
doug

[Chopperdave]

i am running an S&S pump, so i have yet to have a sumping problem wih my pan

when you take it apart, make sure that every single screw thread in the head for the pan covers is good, if not helicoil or timesert them.
and make sure your pans are perfectly flat.
and dont ever tighten them, all it does is distort the pans... leaking

i have a small case seeping issue with my pan right behind the generator, but its super slight...
and i dont have any urge to pull the motor apart
as it was 90 degrees in long beach yesterday!

i had plug hole insert issues but welded the holes up completely and remachined the plug holes, so i have no more prob there...

as long as you do the best you can to make sure that EVERY surface is as good as possible, you should be basically leak free.

cottons advice is good (it always is) about the oil leaking past the check ball, start it at last once a month and let it warm up to full operating temp, it will puke a bit if its sumping, but once you get it started on a regular basis, you shouldnt have the sumping problem anyway
and
if you want to fix the pump if it still does it (that is if it sumps after sitting a day or 2) send it to cotton!

and Cotton, thanx for the info!

[T. Cotten]

No! No! Please do not send it to me!!

Liberty (my shop) is only accepting new carb and manifold accounts until I can find someone to take over.

The burnisher is a simple screwpress, as shown in my last attachment. Anyone with a lathe and can silversolder should make one.

(I commissioned a few, but my sub got way out of hand, so I must get $50 a piece just to break even. If you want something done right, you better do it yourself...)

For an even better burnisher design, and professional service if you need it, try Steve at http://www.resurrectioncycle.com/

....Cotten

[charlie frey]

Don't forget the transmission.
Main drive gear bushing and seal and main seal.

[portagepan]

How about making sure the motor isn't cocked in the frame? If the motor rocks after installing two of the mount bolts, start shimmin'. Put a twist on those cases and you WILL have a leak.

[brooksds]

Finally got my "honeydo" down to the point that I can concentrate on the Pan again. I pulled the oil pump to look at the ball check seal, and danged if the topscrew over the ballcheck spring isn't frozen tighter than tight. After shooting it up with WD-40, I put my longest screwdriver in sideways and torqued that ****er until the metal around the slot started to give, and had to quit.
I'm afraid to put anthing around the outside of it (vise grips, vise, etc.) as I'm pretty sure the metal will just shear.

Options:

1) If I can get the topscrew off, Resurrection Cycle does have a burnishing tool for $50.

2) A new S&S oil pump as per Chopper Dave. While this would no doubt be the best mechanical option, I'm trying to keep a mostly original look, and that shiny billet box tends to really stick out.

3) A $75 oil pump rebuild (burnish ballcheck, 25% stronger spring, and new gears) from Dragonman, but I notice Cotten is not a big fan. He referenced other threads on Dragonman problems, but many may have expired, as I've only found one thread on a cylinder bore.

4) Other suggestions from forum members -- I'd love to hear 'em!