Hard ti Kick Panhead

[Green Indian]

Bill,
I can’t add anything to the discussion about your Pan’s hard starting, however, I did want to complement you on just how stunning I think it is. Love the green color, good luck with the issues.
Damon

[billpedalino]

I love your '53 pan, Bill. I have a 1951FL and seriously considered the 'Spring Green' color H-D offered that year. My friends talked me out of it, but looking at your green '53 I have regrets. Your '53 is gorgeous and I hope you have a lot of fun with that bike.

Exeric,
Thank you for the compliments. Always nice to hear positive feedback, especially from such a respected member!
Unfortunately, since I've finished it about two years ago, and started it a couple of times, it's yet to roll more than a couple of hundred feet under power, as I won't ride it until I've corrected the high compression problem.
As for the color, it was 'Forrest Green' for 1953 and I didn't like the color when I selected it; it reminded me of Pea-Green. But I have multiple other bikes and none were green. But I must say, after installing the painted tanks and fenders, it grew to really like it. Then I received my newly painted Hi-Fi green Sportster parts a couple of months and parked that bile next to the panhead and had to lament the fact that paint technology certainly had advanced markedly between 1953 and 1970! But I do like the Forest Green on the 1953, as it has a stately appearance compared to the newer, more glitzy bikes of the 1969's and reminds us of what was available during that era and what you would then see on the showroom floor. So, as complete packages, both of my green bikes appeal to me in different ways and for different reasons.
Hopefully I'll figure out what would seem to be a simple problem this Fall, and be able to ride the bike to our local cruise nights next season.

What color did you settle on for your '51??

[exeric]

I did a tribute to the color option H-D offered in '53(?) with the tank stripe. I always second guess the color choices I make so I'll never be totally happy with what I do pick. Your green '53 proves that to me, Bill

24flc.jpg

[billpedalino]

I did a tribute to the color option H-D offered in '53(?) with the tank stripe. I always second guess the color choices I make so I'll never be totally happy with what I do pick. Your green '53 proves that to me, Bill

24flc.jpg

Damon/Exeric,
Thank you for your compliments - great for my ego! I can't wait to have it judged, but I can't, in all good conscience, bring a bike to judging is it only starts and idles. Maybe Oley next year..??..

[Green Indian]

I’d love to see it if you do bring it to Oley. I haven’t been to that wonderful show in a few years, hope you’re able to.

[exeric]

I know what you mean about taking a poor running bike to a National meet, Bill. Both of my Hendersons would not piss in public so I know the embarrassment of baby sitting a no-go-showboat. I plan to take my 1919 Hen to Daytona in '26 so I've got 7 months to sort it out. Even a motor-simple idiot like me should be able to make it run and ride in that amount of time. I did spent all day today machining the starter dogs which is a long over-due, and gruesome task but one detail of the long list.

[billpedalino]

I know what you mean about taking a poor running bike to a National meet, Bill. Both of my Hendersons would not piss in public so I know the embarrassment of baby sitting a no-go-showboat. I plan to take my 1919 Hen to Daytona in '26 so I've got 7 months to sort it out. Even a motor-simple idiot like me should be able to make it run and ride in that amount of time. I did spent all day today machining the starter dogs which is a long over-due, and gruesome task but one detail of the long list.

I've been reading your posts and communicating with you through this forum for many years now, so I know that 'motor-simple' you're certainly not! But it's nice to know that I'm not alone in baby-sitting a no-go showboat. Yes, a bit embarrassing, but I'll get it solved. Good luck with your '26 - it sounds like a nice bike...
Hopefully we'll have the opportunity to meet personally at one of these meets....
Best Regards....

[billpedalino]

Thanks for the reply Duke. I guess I was smart to reach out with this as apparently the head I measured (at 145.2 CC's) had most likely been decked at one point and using that measurement against the volumes I'll measure on my '53 would be misleading. I also noticed that the head I measured has a long-reach spark plug installed, which would decrease the volume reading (I use a calibrated Burette as well), but probably not by the 10-20 CC's that you indicate. I'm going to re-check it with a J12Y plug just to know the resulting volume difference.
Given your results, I'm going to stop being lazy. I'll dig out a couple more pairs of heads, clean them up, assemble them, check valve protrusions, and make some additional readings.
Thanks again for providing accurate baseline information.

I re-tested the head with the correct spark plug and measured 153.2 cc's. It's still a slightly less than Dukleman's measurement, but close. I also noticed that there's a 1/8" oversized intake valve installed, so that would probably account for the slight volume difference.

Thanks for the input - I now have a reliable baseline volume measurement to check my 1953 combustion chamber volume against.

[billpedalino]

I did a tribute to the color option H-D offered in '53(?) with the tank stripe. I always second guess the color choices I make so I'll never be totally happy with what I do pick. Your green '53 proves that to me, Bill

24flc.jpg

Exeric,
I didn't realize that there was a striped tank option in '53. I should have done more research! That bike is beautiful - you do nice work...

[exeric]

Well thank you, Bill. I think Rubone can give more detailed info about that factory stripe which is who I believe clued me in on that. I'll bet Bruce Palmer also has that in his books. I love your posts, Bill and appreciate the questions, and journeys you take to find a solution to a problem. Those inquiries always tangentially (great word, eh) help everyone else.

[billpedalino]

Well, I was so frustrated with the panhead, that I drained he fluids, covered it up, and let it sit in my basement while I restored my '70 Sportster. I really needed to disconnect from the panhead for a while. Now that the 'acceptance phase' has subsided, this morning I decided to place it onto the lift and look at it with fresh eyes and renewed enthusiasm.

As can be seen in my first posting on 7/23, I reviewed the measurements taken when I last disassembled the (fresh) motor all seem to be correct; stroke, cylinder length, etc. Therefore, I started with the simplest thing by doing a compression test with my brand-new compression gauge.

I removed both spark plugs, placed the gauge in the front cylinder and kicked. Now I'm about lbs. and it took two VERY concentrated efforts to kick it through the compression stroke. After three compression stroke kicks, the gauge read 110 psi - correct for a brand-new motor rebuild. I did the same for the rear cylinder. While It was equally difficult to kick, the gauge read 90 lbs. (I attribute the pressure difference to it being brand new motor and things haven't been run-in yet). I removed the gauge and kicked it through without plugs and it kicks over very easily. Therefore, the compression test verifies, at least to me that:

1. The stroke is correct.
2. The piston is raising to the correct height in the combustion chamber.
3. The valve train is operatizing correctly (no binding or pushrod noise).

However, for many years past I've owned strokers that I built and rode; Sportsters, panhead, and shovelhead. All were kick start (although I did convert the Sportster to electric start at one point) and all had compression ratios in the 110-120 psi range. So I know what if feels like to kick a longer stroke motorcycle.

When I covered the bike up, my feeling was that if the motor had to work that hard to overcome compression pressure, it would certainly run hot - now, given the compression readings, I'm not so sure that the problem is internal to the motor. Maybe the problem is in the kicker train? Maybe the frame is off, and the transmission isn't properly aligned with the motor? I did check the primary chain alignment when I first assembled the bike, but maybe it warrants another look.

Finally, one more vert important factoid: When I purchased the left motor case, the bore for the sprocket shaft bearing race was damaged by what must have been a spun bearing race. I properly centered the bore on our Bridgeport using the pinion bore location, sleeved it, and pressed in a new bearing race. The assembled flywheels seem to turn over fine. While i can't see how, I now question if a misalignment of this race would cause the problems I'm now experiencing? This doesn't seem likely, but it's certainly new territory for me,

This one really has me stumped and I don't want to start disassembling the motor blindly (again). If anyone can offer an opinion, I'm certainly interested. I ride my old bikes and this is a beautiful machine - it's fate shouldn't be relegated to that of a trailer queen.

[painterdale]

Hi, Bill!
I'm just kinda spitballing here, but if the problem was an alignment issue (trans, primary, sprocket shaft) wouldn't it be felt with the plugs out also?
I can relate to disconnecting from a project for a while. I'm running out of corners to push things into!
I'm rooting for you! You'll get it sorted.

Dale

[billpedalino]

Hi, Bill!
I'm just kinda spitballing here, but if the problem was an alignment issue (trans, primary, sprocket shaft) wouldn't it be felt with the plugs out also?
I can relate to disconnecting from a project for a while. I'm running out of corners to push things into!
I'm rooting for you! You'll get it sorted.

Dale

Thank you Dale, and I think I agree with your assessment. Things do turn over smoothly without the plugs and, while I must re-check, the chains appear to run straight as evidenced by where they hit on their respective sprockets..
As for running out of time, in 50 years I'll be 125, but I should still be able to kick and ride until I reach 100 (God willing). So, I have 25 years left to sort things out....