Oil Pump check valve

[Schorsch]

Hi all, have the common problem with my oil pump. The check valve insn't tight. During few month of not running motor, the
crankcase is filled with oil…
What can I do to solve that Problem?
Do anyone know a tool for polish the seat of the check valve ball? Would be happy for recommendations…
George

[T. Cotten]

Hi all, have the common problem with my oil pump. The check valve insn't tight. During few month of not running motor, the
crankcase is filled with oil…
What can I do to solve that Problem?
Do anyone know a tool for polish the seat of the check valve ball? Would be happy for recommendations…
George

I can tell you what doesn't work, George!

Bubble-testing of a checkvalve on the bench soon proved that all attempts at lapping, angle grinding, cutting, burnishing, or smacking with a drift only made things worse.

Only a flat grind from the top with a piloted stone as shown in the attachment could remove a worn seat, and improve its seal.

I lost an enormous investment, and a lot of valuable time, trying to solve this very pesky problem.

...Cotten

[lrcormier]

I know it might look ugly, but could installing a small shut off valve in the oil supply line work? The danger would be if you forgot to turn it on prior to starting your bike, but has anyone tried this?

[T. Cotten]

I know it might look ugly, but could installing a small shut off valve in the oil supply line work? The danger would be if you forgot to turn it on prior to starting your bike, but has anyone tried this?

It better be a BIG valve, LRC!

Might as well put a solenoid on it, too.

Face it, Folks,.. They sump when they haven't been ridden.

If you aren't going to ride for many weeks at a time, its easiest to just drain it into a jug, and pour it back in.

....Cotten

[Rollo]

I'm with Cotton on this. If you aren't going to ride or at least kick them through or better yet start them on a weekly basis, drain the oil and reuse it when you are going to ride it. I know plenty of folks who have tried all the supposed fixes and still have the problem of wet sumping. Some have put inline shut offs on their bike but I think I would rather drain the oil and tag the bike as "no oil" and fill it again. Just mu worthless two cents!

Tom ( Rollo( Hardy
AMCA #12766

[RCamp]

Several years ago I tried the burnishing tool without much luck. I ordered 100 Viton balls with I believe a durometer rating of 60.
Viton would handle the temps as well as having a high resistance oil and gas. If the pump seat wasn't to bad the balls would conform to the irregularities and eliminate the sumping problem.

I used them in three of my bikes and gave the rest away with about a 75% success rate with my bikes and the feedback I received.

[pan620]

I tell people around here that when you walk by your bike once a week, check your oil level, is it lower than the last check, if it is start it up before it is worse and makes a big mess. But nobody does this they just complain to me about it!

[RCamp]

Also, if you're dealing with a 45 or U model, it doesn't mater how well your oil pump seals, if you have too much clearance around the #1 camshaft that drives the oil pump, oil will still go into the crankcase.

Just curious, has anyone ever cut a groove in the #1 cam bushing to install an o ring to prevent sumping in this area?

[41craig]

Also, if you're dealing with a 45 or U model, it doesn't mater how well your oil pump seals, if you have too much clearance around the #1 camshaft that drives the oil pump, oil will still go into the crankcase.

Just curious, has anyone ever cut a groove in the #1 cam bushing to install an o ring to prevent sumping in this area?

I've never thought about a seal on the #1 cam bushing, but it may help. Every spring for the last 47 years, I put a drain pan under the cam cover breather on my ULH and let it puke. The worst part is it goes right on the front pipe, then to the pan. But, I clean off the oil, add fresh oil and I'm ready for the season.
Craig

[T. Cotten]

Several years ago I tried the burnishing tool without much luck. I ordered 100 Viton balls with I believe a durometer rating of 60.
Viton would handle the temps as well as having a high resistance oil and gas. If the pump seat wasn't to bad the balls would conform to the irregularities and eliminate the sumping problem.

I used them in three of my bikes and gave the rest away with about a 75% success rate with my bikes and the feedback I received.

I tried teflon balls first, RCamp!

But they didn't pass the bubble-test, even on a dressed seat. Various attempts at dressers attached.
(Not only is it hard to imagine a rubber or plastic ball lasting as long as hardened steel, they can't be easily retrieved with a magnet, and may very well embed with abrasive particles.)

Then I dreamt up a burnisher, for re-forming the seat as smooth as possible.
When a Knuck came back for Springtime service after a Chicago winter with an absolutely full tank, I thought I struck gold.
(Aluminum pumps reassured me it was salvation.)

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they had better than 75% success rate at alleviating sumping, but not always eliminating it. (Success rarely gets feedback; they forget about it.)
It was the few failures that forced me to disavow the practice.

Not only did piloting off of the threads in the castings prove the seat was often not concentric to them, but some 'chilled' Flatty cast iron bodies proved too hard and brittle, damaging both burnisher and pump.
So I sucked up my losses, and gave up.

The piloting problem is why I now suggest the 'flat-grind' repair, as it doesn't need to be perfectly concentric with the seat. Not only does that give the best results when bubble-tested, it seems most likely there was no machined seat to begin with.

....Cotten

[jim d]

The Feked Classic Bikes Parts company from the UK markets a anti wet sump oil tap valve. It is available in three different versions. One is just the plain shutoff. The other two have a switch built in to the shutoff valve. One is used for the magneto ignition system. The other is used for a battery and coil ignition system. You can't start the bike until you turn the oil tap on. All of them are explained and pictured on there website. [URL="http://www.feked.com/anti-wet-sump-oil-pipe-tap-with-switch-magneto-or-coil-ignition-system"]

I wasn't sure how to make the web address a hot link so if someone can please do. Thanks

[41craig]

Cotten; I was always under the assumption that some of the aluminum oil pumps produce more oil pressure and thereby cause oil leaking out of the tins covering the rocker arms. Plus ( on a personal note ) they look like crap on a Knuckle. Not as mechanical looking as the original.
Craig

[T. Cotten]

Cotten; I was always under the assumption that some of the aluminum oil pumps produce more oil pressure and thereby cause oil leaking out of the tins covering the rocker arms. Plus ( on a personal note ) they look like crap on a Knuckle. Not as mechanical looking as the original.
Craig

Aren't "tins" a Panhead thing, Craig?

The aluminum pumps were a '68 and later thing, (according to my Parts Book anyway).

Leaky rockers, both Knuck and Pan, often start with a drainage issue.

It wouldn't have to do with pressure, but volume: How much can you get rid of..

...Cotten
PS: Lets see if this works, Jim!
http://www.feked.com/anti-wet-sump-o...gnition-system
Uh oh, evil 404 error!
I guess we won't know the open valve bore...

[41craig]

Aren't "tins" a Panhead thing, Craig?

The aluminum pumps were a '68 and later thing, (according to my Parts Book anyway).

Leaky rockers, both Knuck and Pan, often start with a drainage issue.

It wouldn't have to do with pressure, but volume: How much can you get rid of..

...Cotten
PS: Lets see if this works, Jim!
http://www.feked.com/anti-wet-sump-o...gnition-system
Uh oh, evil 404 error!
I guess we won't know the open valve bore...

That makes perfect sense Cotten. Growing up in St. Charles, Mo. ( just west on I-70 from St. Louis Co. ) we called the Knuckle rocker arm covers "tins". Although we did call Panhead motors "Tin Pans". And since the mid 1960's we ( and I still do ) call Sissy Bars, Chicken Bars. This was before Chopper Magazines, so we didn't hear or see what things were called on the East or West Coasts.
Craig

[T. Cotten]

You are right, Craig!

Knucks had their "tins" too, plus the 'Knuckles' themselves, of course...

I'm not on a 'Coast', but just a couple of hours Northeast of you.

Come to think of it, I can't remember my locals ever called anything "tins". But they had other choice words for them!

....Cotten
PS: Locals calling fenders "tins" was definitely post-sleazyriders era.

PPS: While we are on sumping,..
Let me repeat my warning to folks with a sprocket shaft seal, instead of the OEM "slinger": Your cases can fill ALL the way up!