'65 Triple Trees

[Chips Place]

Just a little background here, I acquired a '65 basket case (swingarm frame) which appears to have the majority of its parts. But as most of you already know and I am learning, it doesn't mean the parts are correct for that year. And it appears to me the triple tree is falling into this category.

Now I have read the post on the triple trees which indicates there are two versions, one for the rigid frame and one for the swingarm frame. The picture depicts on one of the posts shows the two versions, the one on top being the swingarm version and the one on the bottom being the rigid version.

I am a little confused about the terminology of "boss". What are they referring too? Could it be the bottom portion of the stem that is sticking out from the lower trees plate, where the stem is either "welded" or "pressed" onto the bottom plate?

I looked at the pictures and it appears the rigid frame, bottom picture, the bottom of the stem has a donut end and a higher dimension. The swingarm stem looks like it is flatten out and not as high, the top picture.

What is the difference between the two and how would it affect each frame if the wrong tree was used on a frame? Or maybe it doesn't matter. I know from the background I have had in manufacturing, that certain parts can superseded others. For the better or worse some would say. Could this be the case?

Also "IF" I would want to take on the adventure of making this a 100 point bike, could the wrong version of the triple tree make a difference?

They also talk about an adjustable tree? What is meant by that. Are the fork tubes adjustable on the triple tree? (Maybe the way the tubes are positioned in the pinch portion of the lower trees?

I am looking at a triple tree to purchase, and it does have the correct casting number of -48 but it appears it is the what I call the donut bottom which is I think is for the rigid frame. So would this be wrong for the swingarm?

I hope this makes sense, if not let me know.

Thanks,
Chip

[Rubone]

The swingarm frame bottom tree has an oval shape (the boss you are asking about) where the stem is welded in offset, the rigid one has a circular boss with the stem centered. The "boss" was changed to allow for the height difference in the new swingarm frame and allow the same trail as was used on the rigid to help keep the handling similar. And there are far more than two versions of trees.
Adjustable trees have two piece lowers that can be set in a retracted or extended position for use with sidecars only. The tops of the legs have a pivot rather than a bolted through the tree cap.

For the theoretical "100 point" bike everything has to be correct as the bike was originally sold, so yes, the trees make a difference.

[drinner-okc]

Boy Chip, a 100 point 65 would really be a tough endeavor, and expensive. There were numerous running changes during 65 production. So-far there is no book that documents 65's as well as any other year. Several have been started upon, far as I know none made it to the publisher.
Before you start chasing rare expensive parts, chase down as much info about where your serial number fits into the changes.
This site, and the hydra-glide.com site have a wealth of info. Attend AMCA meets and Road Runs and talk to 65 owners & riders and find some near your number, and talk to them, ask if they know whats' correct in your serial number range.
There are four (4) 65's in our group and all have minor differences.
When your's done, maybe you can write the book !!

Dwight
drinner-okc

[Chips Place]

That is probably why Palmer stopped where he did. If he didn't, his book would have been published.

If one were to attempt a '65 publication, I am sure it would be full of disclaimers.

But I feel something is always worth wild. Even if things are wrong and noted, it would give the next guy a fighting chance.

Chip

[ammorest]

Bruce is working on another edition of his "How To Restore Your Harley-Davidson". It will include the 1965 models. He is working diligently to try to document all those changes. Chip, probably one of the first things you could do is check the date code on the frame. It is on the backbone tube at the top motor mount on the right side. It will be a letter and a number. The letter designates the month A=January etc.) The number designates the year. (5=65) I believe production started for the 1965 in August 1964 so the number in the date code could be a 4. Recently someone asked me to look at a 1965 FLH he bought on ebay. The first thing I spotted was a gusset on the left rear frame rail that didn't come out until 1968. Checked the date code and sure enough, F8. June 1968. Good luck and keep up posted on your progress.
Dave

[Rubone]

The first thing I spotted was a gusset on the left rear frame rail that didn't come out until 1968

Dave, Keep in mind that the gusset was supplied as a retro fit kit to dealers and many earlier frames including Duo-Glide have them installed. The gusset in itself is a clue but not gospel.

All transition years have many ongoing changes, '48, '49, '58, '65, '70, are all tough years to get right and often years on either side of them have lots of changes as well. That is what keeps it interesting as we learn more and more.

[ammorest]

Yeah, Robbie, I knew that. I have a friend who worked for Tramontin Harley in New Jersey back then and he could weld so they gave him all the gusset jobs. And I've seen a lot of really cobbely welded ones, too.
Dave

[Rubone]

And I've seen a lot of really cobbely welded ones, too.

Yup, lots of owners did their own too!

[Chips Place]

Dave, Keep in mind that the gusset was supplied as a retro fit kit to dealers and many earlier frames including Duo-Glide have them installed. The gusset in itself is a clue but not gospel.

All transition years have many ongoing changes, '48, '49, '58, '65, '70, are all tough years to get right and often years on either side of them have lots of changes as well. That is what keeps it interesting as we learn more and more.

Dave,
When you refer to gusset, are you talking about the space behind the steering stem, neck?

65 Panhead Frame.jpg

[Rubone]

No, we are talking about the lower left side of the frame near the swingarm pivot. Hopefully your frame doesn't have any welding in the head casting!

[Speeding Big Twin]

Chip, a gusset plate was fitted to frames as original as of about mid-68 models. The example below is on a 69 model frame.



As a repair part it was also available for frames back through 1958 models.




Dave mentioned checking the date code and that’s a good place to start. It may be in the blue square in your photo below.



In the orange square the frame is missing a steering head lock but they can be found via eBay and elsewhere.
Below the red arrow is a forging die number. Is it 39? If so, it is consistent with a 65 model frame.

On the other side of the steering head you may find forging number 47591-35. Please notice the suffix is -35, not -35A.
Also on the left side, but lower down, you may find an additional original component identifying number, aka security code, aka anti-theft number. It is stamped on and consists of one letter followed by either three or four numbers—for example, D1234. The characters are small however and they may be hard to see.
Eric

[Chips Place]

Eric,
Thanks for the information.
What is the purpose of the gusset in that location? Support? Did they find they were having failures with the frame?

Also, changing the subject if I may, what software app are you using for the addition of the colored squares and the added pointer in the picture?

Thanks,

Chip

[Rubone]

Chip, the frames were always a bit weak in that area, however with the advent of electric start the extra weight and torque reaction caused them to break far more frequently in that are where the vertical tube meets the lower casting. The gusset stopped the breakage.

[Speeding Big Twin]

You're welcome Chip. As Robbie mentioned, the gusset was added to stop the frame breaking. My 61–71 catalog lists it as #47261-68 which is the same as on the packet I posted above. However, apparently a gusset was available as a repair part from the factory in the early-60s although #47261-68 is the only part number I have. My 58–68 catalog doesn’t show a gusset.

Re the coloured squares and arrow, my PC has a program called ‘Paint’ which looks something like this.



It can be found via Google but there would be a lot of better programs available by now.

BTW, what type of swingarm do you have? Below is a link to a thread I started on the Panhead and Flathead forum with info and photos for 58–72 BT swingarms.
Eric


http://www.hydra-glide.com/phpBB3/vi...hp?f=5&t=15801

[T. Cotten]

Sidehacks broke the frames, Folks.

....Cotten