Getting started

[Stewarts65]

I have begun to get my 65 FLH ready to be started after 7 yrs. of sitting. I began by removing the tanks for cleaning. Got a ton of varnish and rust out with just simple green and hot water. They look pretty good and will add some de-rust to it before I add any gas. The fuel shut off still holds pressure so I will not replace at this time. Took the carb off and soaked it in cleaner. Gave it a good scrubbing with brushes and it also came out really nice I think. I love the brass look and will leave it like that. Waiting for parts to come in to put back together. If anyone has any tips they would like to share about rebuilding I would appreciate that. I just want to put in an overhaul kit instead of a complete kit as I do not have the skills for bushings and what not. Just want to get the engine running to see if there are other issues with the motor and see if I made a good buy or not. I know that there will be seals to replace and don't know if the valves have ever been upgraded to harden seats. I have an unopened bottle of lead additive I have had for my classic Oldsmobiles, but they have all been upgraded. I will then decide how far I need to go into the restoration process.

http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/st..._3379.jpg.html
http://s1183.photobucket.com/user/st..._3381.jpg.html

[T. Cotten]

Welcome, Stewart!

Beware that if you leave it bare bronze, then by AMCA standards, it will be custom, not "restored".

If you choose a common catalog kit (such as V-TWIN), be prepared to pay for extras that don't fit your model, parts that don't fit even though they are for your model, and a 100% chance that the float will either turn squishy, or swell if you use the wrong filling station.

The bushings, however, are the most likely pieces to fit, and the most important to use to prevent any further wear to your carburetor's bore.

(The search function for this forum may turn up valuable information about the rest of the overhaul.)

And a note about the "upgrade" to hardened seats: The fad has faded, in light of the risk not only of cracking a head with the enormous interference fit required, but the possibility of the seats shrinking and falling out if advanced timing (such as points follower wear), low octane fuel, or the menace of vacuum leaks cause a temperature spike. Please remember that your Olds are water-cooled.
(Don Sullivan of "HeadHog" has mastered the art of building up the original cast-in seats.)

If anyone knows of a source of OEM bronze inserts (attached), please let me know!

Good luck!

...Cotten

[BigLakeBob]

Cotton,
With all the things you make and as thrifty you seem to be I'm surprised you don't just make your own seats. That is what I do, that way you do not need to bore the head way over to fit the seat or turn the outside of your already made purchased seat to fit the bore. I use 954 AL Bronze, if I remember right, if you buy a foot at a time it comes to about $5/ seat for the material.

Welcome Stewart, I also agree with Cotton 100% that hardened seats in an old sand cast air cooled head is the wrong way to go. Totally different expansion rates between to two metals. If you have original seats and they are in tolerance (or even out some) as shown in your manual leave them alone. If the bike runs good with good compression I wouldn't even pull the heads off. As far as top end lubrication, (everyone has a different opinion here), I personally use Marvel every time I put fuel in. No top end issues in a very long time. JMO. Good luck with you new purchase!

[T. Cotten]

Bob!

It's been a decade since I tried, but at the time, even Kibblewhite couldn't source the stock. (And even today, they spec a huge interference fit for their offerings.)

If you have a link, the whole world would appreciate it!

....Cotten
PS: What interference do you use with the 954?

[Stewarts65]

Thanks for the info. I was only going to use an overhaul kit that looks as though it comes with brass float, new float valve & seat and gaskets. I did not remove throttle shaft or intake shaft. After cleaning they seemed to be tight, no side movement. After I get it running and see if there are other issues I will consider sending it to someone to have it done right. This bike as of now will be a rider and I am not concerned with originality. Will keep it close but that's all.

I checked the compression and it had 65-70 psi. Does that sound low? Now this was about 3-4 kicks on the motor.

Stewart

[T. Cotten]

Well, Stewart,..

A brass float won't swell, but it is at least three or four times as heavy as the carb was designed to use. It's all about buoyancy, as well as fuel resistance. So you can't set a brass by the book.
(And brass floats have been known to corrode holes, or often fill with fuel for other reasons.)
So it comes down to how many times you wish to spend your money.

Most original floatvalves are just fine. Especially the last ones made.

But beware that any stone unturned hides something that will bite you.
There's a big void around the venturi that must be cleaned.
Cleaning is critical for inspection, of even the throttleshaft fit.
Carbon only takes you so far.
Look inside the bore for an eybrow groove from the disc (attached).
That is from "side movement".

"Originality" is only for the nostalgic (and those who want their investments to survive).
But I'll bet you want your carb to be at least as faithfull as whatever made Pans so legendary!

....Cotten

[drinner-okc]

Stewart, good advise coming to you! Forget the brass float, they don't. The best float on the market (in my opinion) comes from Cotten (the one helping you) They are the most current material available, and adjust to factory specs.
Replace your intake o-rings (James Viton, they resist fuel damage also) and look-up articles on pressure testing your intake.
Don't fill the tank with oil, there is probably some in the engine the pump will return and would overfill. I would pull the primary cover and clean the clutch plates, and maybe scuff the fiber plates if they're glazed.
Please post pics as you work.

Ha! Cotten & I were typing at same time!

[Stewarts65]

Well that is very good advice and I do appreciate all the comments. But Murphy's Law has struck BIG TIME!!!!!!!!!! I was cleaning about a 1/2 inch of gunk from under the engine and chassis. When I got to the front flat exhaust pipe by the rear mount of the floor board, I noticed that at some point the previous owner,for what ever reason,cut off the top portion of the frame. Looks like I will be doing a lot more in restoring this FLH than I had planned. I hope that this can be repaired. I imagine it will require a complete tear down. What a BUMMER!

Stewart

[T. Cotten]

Stewart!

I wish I could view your externally-hosted photos, but I just get blank windows and come-ons to register.

It may or may not be solace, but I assure you that framework is usually a lot easier than carb 'blueprinting'.

....Cotten

[BigLakeBob]

Bob!

It's been a decade since I tried, but at the time, even Kibblewhite couldn't source the stock. (And even today, they spec a huge interference fit for their offerings.)

If you have a link, the whole world would appreciate it!

....Cotten
PS: What interference do you use with the 954?

McMaster Carr sells it, I get mine from my local aluminum supplier. .007 interference

[T. Cotten]

Gosh, Bob,

If it requires THAT much press, might as well use a hardened seat.
A pre-'55 head risks splitting through to the intake port.

There is no more sickening sound than to hear a loud "tink" twenty minutes after you have pressed in a seat.

An OEM seat will stay put at .0035" when installed within the original.

I guess I'm still looking.

....Cotten

[BigLakeBob]

Well, respectfully, to each his own Cotton. Opinions on this process probably run as deep as what oil should I use. Putting the seat in the freezer gets .001 in shrinkage, (dry ice even more). Heat the head to 250* and I get about .005 in expansion. That is only about .001 press, they almost fall in. I have special tools I made to hold the insert while doing this. The whole point of the interference is because of the growth rate of the head under usage so the seat grows with the head. Using a hardened seat as you say in your last post would not get this. Use .0035 press if you like, I stated what has worked for me without any failure or cracking. Good luck with whatever method you choose.

Stewart sorry about the thread hijack.

[T. Cotten]

I am aware of the procedure, Bob.

Stewart!

Can you upload your frame photos direct to the forum?

...Cotten

[Stewarts65]

Cotten, I added the pictures to my album. I am still not sure of how to get them to load smaller. Do you sell carb parts or rebuild carbs for members? I am debating just putting the carb back together to see if I can get it started as now it looks as if it will require engine removal to do a proper repair. I am guessing that in order to get the flat pipe out, the previous owner cut the frame to keep from removing the engine. Is that the only way to remove that pipe? After I found the problem I search the forum for " Frame Repair" and read about frames that were in worse shape than mine. I am somewhat relieved that the repair can be done. I just wonder if I need to send it to a shop to have it checked for straightness or if I can do the repair myself. I am a retired welder but do not know how to check the frame. Safety is my up most concern. I see that Wasco Frame and Carls Cycle Supply have been used by members in the forum. Do you or anyone else know of a shop closer to Dallas, Texas that is qualified?

Stewart

[Stewarts65]

I figured out how to download the pictures smaller to my album.

Stewart