brake cross over zerc location?

[koanes]

I guess there are no Indian motocycle men reading this thread or surely Jerry would have been chastised for his choice of parts to use as a frame stand in one of the pictures.

[William McClean]

Oscar Ulysses Zerk { 1878-1968 } of Kanosha, WI

In 38 they started to use zerc nipples and and an extension instead of making a special sidevalve frame, propably cheaper.

Alemite vs. Zerk

I had always heard of the "Alemite " fitting as the earlier nipple for the injection of grease into a bearing surface. It is a different fitting than the modern " Zerk " fitting, requiring differnt grease gun tools. I have an Alemite gun with a nozzle that dispenses the grease at a 90 degree angle to the flexible steel braided tube & chamber that holds the grease, not straight out the end of the flexible tube. This nozzle will not fit on a modern Zerk.

The earlier frame discussed here has the grease fitting located closer to the seat post tube evidently had the Alemite fittings that was serviced by the earlier Alemite grease gun, not the modern Zerk pattented fitting.

Of course, over the years of period modifications many of the Alemite fittings have been replaced by the Zerk because fellas could not find the older tools to work on their pets and they updated the lube points, at times causing difficulties in access to the bearing in need of lubrication.

[rustynuts]

alemite tap size

Cool Name-

am i correct that the tap size of the alemite zercs is 5/16"-32 NF. i know it is the same as a valve stem cap. what would the pilot hole size be? thanks!

[Steve Little]

Hi
Frame drawing 111-3E has the change of the nipple from near the seatpost to out near the crossover support initialed by WSH "William Harley" in "Alterations" on the 5th March 1937.

The exact time of the introduction of new model Harleys confuses me but I think I have heard that the new models were introduced in your Autum "you call it Fall".
What month would that be?

Chris.
Thanks for your input. Your opinion on the position of this grease nipple is new to me and contrary to , 1937 frames I have seen, information I have gathered over the years and the original Harley frame blueprint.

One of the last pictures you posted is a 1937 frame with the grease nipple close to the seatpost with your discription "early 37 frame"

I dont believe that I will accept it just yet.
But I will keep an open mind.

Regards Steve

[MJW]

Fall

Steve, October/November.

[Perry Ruiter]

The exact time of the introduction of new model Harleys confuses me but I think I have heard that the new models were introduced in your Autum "you call it Fall".
What month would that be?

It varies by year (for example 47 production ran a month or two longer than usual, hence the 48 season started later) but typically the season started early September after the annual factory shutdown. The 1938 new model news bulletin (dated Sept. 13, 1937) and the 1940 new model news bulletin (dated Sept. 5, 1939) both state they are now in full production of the new models. From the 1950 new model news bulletin (dated Aug. 29, 1949) we know that September 1st was considered the official start of the new season that year ... Perry

[Steve Little]

Hi
There would be a good number of bikes manufactured before September. Bikes would need to be ready to be showcased at the unveiling and be delivered to dealers thereafter.
This original frame drawing was first dated in 1936 and has running revisions through to 1939.
It describes the original dimensions and then the new dimensions. The old dimension is close to the seat post and the new dimension and degree is out near the support.

The drawing has the following heading. As follows:
61", 74" & 80
Motorcycle Frame Assembly
HARLEY DAVIDSON mOTOR Co
Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Scale - Half size. Date 7-10-36

61' 74" & 80" would mean all U and EL frames.

Regards Steve

[Steve Little]

Hi. I have just been looking at this Blueprint to try and clear up this subject of the brake crossover grease nipple placement for 1936-37.

Another change that was noted for this 1937 frame was the change of the seat post cross brace. It is well know that 1936 and 1937 had 2 inch cross brace and that it was changed for 1938 to 2 1/2 inches wide.
This change of part XE-183 is noted in "Alterations and the new part is XE-183A.
The date for this alteration is 4-27-37 "27th April 1937".
This is only 5 weeks after the alteration of the new grease nipple placement.
The drawing shows the new placement of the grease nipple out near the brake crossover support set.

Someone made a post on the type of nipple and another post suggested U and E engines may have been the cause of placement.
While looking at the Blueprint, I noticed an arrow pointing to the grease nipple hole with 2 numbers on it... 38 and 39
The side index lists these numbers with a part number, discription, and number of parts used in assembly.
As follows:
Drawing item 38 is listed as part #1853-38A
Discription ....Alemite Angular grease fitting.

Drawing item 39 is listed as part #5306-38
Discription 5/16" X 7/16" X .014" washer.
The drawing has a note "Use if necessary" for these parts.

The Blueprint states that 1936 and 1937 had the grease nipple close to the seatpost and that the change was made late in the 1937 "model".

I have been advised that new model Harley's are launched around September of the previous year of the model.
The new 1937 model was probably launched somewhere around Sep 1936
The changes for the grease nipple are dated "5th of March 1937 which is about 7 months after the model was launched.
The changes were possibly implemented on very late 1937 frames and definatley on 1938 frames.

Regards Steve.

[Chris Haynes]

Steve,
That doesn't explain my 2" wide support, 7/8" reinforcing tube Early '37 frame with the grease fitting located outboard.

[Steve Little]

Hi Chris.
I dont know how fast changes were implemented from the initialing of this Blueprint to the part being fitted to the frame. eg Blueprint could be drawing room or it could be a workshop copy. Where did William Harley work?

If we were to use the dates of the changes on this Blueprint as construction times, your frame would fit the manufacture period between the 5th of march and 27th of April 1937.
While this doesnt syncronise nicely with the engine number that came with your frame, there may be various reasons for that. eg, Engine was set aside at the factory for whatever reason and used later in the assembly line. Frame was replaced for later frame for whatever reason.

Your frame fits the very late 1937 or very early 1938criterea. eg Welded brake cap, outboard grease nipple on cross over.
Thomo said his bike is a "Known History" UL and it also has the outer placement of the nipple.

While this thread has drawn out these 2 bikes, they are not the norm, and I would like to find the reason for it.

When I was enquiring about the Foundry mark on the neck of your frame in a much earlier post, I was thinking you would respond that it had a number 2 revision under it. These 2nd revision necks have a larger spigot to accept the new 1 inch intermediate backbone. These necks are used through 1938.

A few years ago a guy informed me that some of the very last 1937 frames had this larger spigot but still had the 7/8inch intermediate backbone. These necks are defined by the number 2 revision mark which is directly under the foundry mark. He said they had a thin sleeve on the end of the 7/8 inter backbone to sleeve up to the new 1 inch hole. The sleeve did not protude from the spigot but could be seen, brazed in there.

From a construction point of view that would make sense to use up any left over 7/8 tubes.

The short answer is I dont know why your frame and engine dont fit the norm..... but I want to know.

I will be in California in august if you have an interest in seeing the Blueprint
Regards Steve

[Chris Haynes]

I will be in California in august if you have an interest in seeing the Blueprint
Regards Steve

I certainly would.

[Steve Little]

Hi.
I've been busy and havent had time to get back here.
The early 1937EL that a mate of mine owns is "Known history bike" and the engine number is 37EL149_ .
This bike is only 490 bikes from the start of the production run. The grease point on the crossover tube is close to the seat post.
A couple more interesting points to note... it has the 5th outrigger on the transmission.
It also has the bleeder on the front rocker box and has the boss where the vacume lines are machined into the rocker box. 1936 and "I have been told early/transition 1937" do not have this little boss and are instead drilled into the rough surface of rocker box.
Regards Steve