1947 UU frames

[motorpickle]

UUpdate

10-4 on the springer terms, but the frames follow suit,as in correct frame for inline or bullneck and beyond. The UU on the neck is on the frame that is stripped. I can not validate any VIN to both of these frames. At one time there were '47 motors in each, but the factory combination is lost. I will try to post a pic of the UU on the neck. I don't know if my camera has the resolution. Back to the springers. That's kind of my point---if someone in '51 ordered a replacement for a '41 Big Twin---what did they get--a "new" style frame for an offset springer or was the old forging available to make a true replacement frame for an "inline" springer frame.Maybe I have too much time on my hands.

[Jerry Wieland]

I cannot comment on the springers after the fact but they definitely seemed to forget about the 40 to 41 split on frames. Frames are listed as 1936 to mid 1946 and later 46 and 47. By 1957 frames are listed as 1940 to early 1954 (47000-40A) then they list later 54 to 1957 (47003-54) which in turn gets superceded by 47003-54A. If you take 47000-40A into an earlier book it is listed as 1936 to 1950. I often wondered what the difference was between 47003-54 and 47003-54A. By the 1960's there is an entry that just says to call the factory for availability.

Jerry

[Steve Little]

Do both frames still have the toolbox cross bar and if so are the loose like late 41-47 or welded like 1948.

Regards Steve

[Steve Little]

Hi Motorpickle.
Do either of your frames have the original toolbox brackets still attached.
And if so are the cross braces welded or loose/bolted. Sometimes the welding broke but there would be evidence of a weld in any case.
Regards Steve

[bobphd]

Steve, I have an unmolested UU frame. The tool box bracket is not on the frame but there are no signs of any weld in the area.

Bob

[Steve Little]

Hi Bob.
Thanks for the info.
Do you mean that the toolbox bracket is there but the cross brace is not there?

Regards Steve

[bobphd]

Steve, Yes only the cross bracket is missing and there are no traces of it ever being welded to the mount. The only issues with this frame is a crack between the right sidecar mount and the front motor mount. The rear fender bottom mount is also cracked off between the mounting hole for the fender and the transmission plate mounting holes. I wonder how that ever happened and speculate that the frame may have been in a climber and it was ripped off by a tire chain. This frame is readily accessible to me if you want any other info let me know.

Bob Patza
AMCA no.13275

[Rubone]

Bob,
That bottom fender mount is often cracked or broken off. It appears to be a vibration issue. I have had several frames that had to be repaired there.
Robbie

[Steve Little]

Hi Bob.
Thanks for the info.
Does your frame have the UU on the right side of the neck and the left top side of the seat post cluster?

Regards Steve

[bobphd]

Steve, The UU is also on the seat post cluster. Until I saw your post here I never noticed the UU stampings. I have owned this frame for about 30 years . I swapped a set of guide signal lamps for it. I have a 47 that I chopped years ago that will go in this frame.

Bob

[bmh]

I have owned this frame for about 30 years . I swapped a set of guide signal lamps for it.

Bob

Damn good trade! even for thirty years ago.

[Steve Little]

Hi.
The following information is probably common practice but a refresher course is about to happen.
I would like to throw 2 cents into the hat.
As a frame manfacturer and frame restorer I wanted to know why these lower fender supports were cracking and breaking off on these original frames.

I have replaced a lot of these over the years but I have seen 1/2 as many bikes with the bracket still firmly attached.
I think these broken brackets were the result of ill fitted rear fenders.

The main body of the rear fender is supported in 3 places. The fender pad on the axle carrier,
The upper fender brace (the tube that runs between the 2 upper frame rails,
The lower fender support, located between the 2 rear trans posts.
If a fender is fitted correctly it will distribute the weight evenly between these 3 points.
I think the correct procedure for fitting the rear fender is as follows:
Fit the 2 bolts in the axle carrier and fender and finger tighten.
Fit the low fender mount countersunk screw through the countersunk hole in the fender and through the lower fender support and washer and spanner tighten the nut to the back.

(If the fender has a twist in it at this stage of the game, you or your sheetmetal guy failed.
Trying to straighten it with fitment will only mean that something is fitted under stress)

Fit the 2 fender hoops and align them to the correct position in relation to the slots. At this point you should check for gaps between the flat section of the hoops that fit up to the fender.
Simply pulling the fender up to the hoops will stress the fender and the lower fender brace on the frame and most likely result in cracking of fender or lower brace.
Shim any gap and then tighten all bolts.

[Rooster]

Great advice Steve, and if I may add this: when fitting the rear fender, I leave all attachment points loose, including the battery tray/oil tank bolts and the 2-hole fender bracket that bolts in with the rear mount of the oil tank. With all bolts loose, the fender can be positioned so the two straps at the horizontal frame rail fit properly, and those are the first two I snug up, then the two behind the oil tank and one at the bottom (the 3 that have the reinforcing plate inside the fender), then the oil tank/battery tray bolts and support braces at the axle plates. I am working with an original OEM '52 fender in fantastic shape (thanks Stillman!) and I have installed and removed this fender a dozen times or more in the fitting up of other components as I mock together my '52.
If I am doing this wrong, any advice or comment is appreciated, as I surely don't want to damage this fender (or anything else) later on down the road. I do totally understand that forcing something to fit is 'building in' a stress point, and is only looking for trouble.
This frame I have is an 'unknown' to me, meaning that I bought it knowing it had some problems, and have been through the ringer getting it repaired...! Therefore, I am using care and caution as I mock up the assembly using all OEM parts. By the way, thanks again for the top motor mount you made for me earlier this year; it was a good place to start with that part of the frame restoration.

[George Greer]

Fellas,

How about some photos of entire frames, close up's of areas of concern?

And if possible, any tip's, hints, things to look out for to ID the year of a frame that I am looking to get.

I am going back to the Veterama in Mannheim, Germany in October, there's a vendor there that has had for the past several years a 1947 Frame with German Registeration Papers.

I would like to know, (visually hopefully)....for sure what I am looking at before I make a fool out of myself.

George

[Steve Little]

Hi George.
Email me and I will set you up with pictures and info.
Regards Steve