H-D Production IoE V-twins 1909-1929

[Steve Swan]

Thanks for your reply, Eric. What amazes me with these early pioneers of the gas combustion engine era, they had to think all this stuff up; it didn't exist until they made their ideas reality. their ideas were based on their understanding of the laws of physics, mathematics, chemistry, general scientific and practical knowledge of the day. really remarkable. would have been a fascinating era to have lived in; transportation beginning it's transition from animal power to mechanical power. using a needle valve to control oil d.p.m. is ingeniously simple and works perfectly under controlled conditions with no variables.

hopefully members who own these early machines will share what they know or others who have direct knowledge and/or other pictures will contribute. that would really be nice !

i've got a copy Victor Page's "Early Motorcycles" and have read here and there in it from time to time. i see no mention of the Sagher type spring fork nor does an internet search shed light. it would be really nice to hear more from more people.

moving on, going back to pictures i posted from the internet of the 1911 twin. i believe model designation "7D" ? was this the first year for a model designation on the twins ? also the first year the twin was referred to as "the silent grey fellow" ? Hatfield's book mentions the '11 twin had mechanical inlet valves; was this the first year for mechanical inlet valves ?

a forum member by name of "silent grey fellow" posted earlier; maybe he'll contribute, assuming he knows about anything about these machines.

[T. Cotten]

[QUOTE=T. Cotten;166333]Great pic Eric!

But photobucket phuckets with me if I try to view it any more closely, or save it.

Its so easy to save to this forum direct!

When you bring up the box to post your reply, look below it for a 'button' that says: Manage Attachments.
Click on it, and a second browser tab appears. Somewhere in small print among all the bells and whistles it will say: Add Files.
Click on that, and then look in the box that pops up for Basic Uploader.

Clicking on that will change that box to say Browse.
Clicking on that lets you pick your picture from your computer. Then click Upload.

Click Done at the bottom when you are done, and it will close that tab, but the attachment will be listed on the first tab where you compose your text.

Its way too many hoops to jump through, but its better than an expensive external host that will make you jump through its own hoops, and hold your photos hostage someday.

Your browser may vary.

....Cotten
PS: Late edit Folks,
After a full day, Eric's PhotoBucket post works, and at a decent resolution!

[exeric]

The 1910 Merkel had a mechanical oil pump that was a clock-work affair with pivot arms, springs, cams, and escapements. Just because you can make something work doesn't mean it's a good design In function, the Merkel mechanical pump dribbled oil on the timing gears, but was not a pressurized device to get oil into the crank shafts. I had a 1910 Merkel and of course, all of that mechanical stuff was shot. The 1911 used the miracle of gravity, and natural fluid dynamics to get oil to the motor. . . Worked like a dream. The Harley of that era also used an oil dripper, and the drip was controlled by a needle valve, and was viewable in the sight glass of the needle/seat fitting. I believe the H-D drip was controlled by a knurled knob on top of the tank. The knurls corresponded with a spring loaded detent so you could select your d.p.m. (drips per minute).

[Steve Swan]

Let's get back to the Steve's original topic, and something interesting.

This illustration is shows engines from 1910. I say that because the Merkel motor is a 1910 because it has the external mechanical oil pump on the outside of the cam/gear cover. 1911 used a throttle controlled oil dripper. So, I'm making a speculative leap of assumption and am saying that this trade magazine was showing a 1910 Harley-Davidson twin. Now, that could mean that the illustration was created in late 1910 from a trade show where H-D was introducing th3 1911 twin. Regardless, the Merkel twin is a 1910 for what that's worth

Eric, did the Flying Merkle have an actual oil pump that actually moved oil or was it a "drip regulator" seen on later Harley's ? On the 1910 Harley, how was oil flow controlled from the tank ?

[T. Cotten]

Great pic Eric!

But photobucket phuckets with me if I try to view it any more closely, or save it.

Its so easy to save to this forum direct!

When you bring up the box to post your reply, look below it for a 'button' that says: Manage Attachments.
Click on it, and a second browser tab appears. Somewhere in small print among all the bells and whistles it will say: Add Files.
Click on that, and then look in the box that pops up for Basic Uploader.

Clicking on that will change that box to say Browse.
Clicking on that lets you pick your picture from your computer. Then click Upload.

Click Done at the bottom when you are done, and it will close that tab, but the attachment will be listed on the first tab where you compose your text.

Its way too many hoops to jump through, but its better than an expensive external host that will make you jump through its own hoops, and hold your photos hostage someday.

Your browser may vary.

....Cotten
PS: SilentGreyFellow!
What have you done for vintage motorcycling, lately?

[exeric]

Let's get back to the Steve's original topic, and something interesting.

This illustration is shows engines from 1910. I say that because the Merkel motor is a 1910 because it has the external mechanical oil pump on the outside of the cam/gear cover. 1911 used a throttle controlled oil dripper. So, I'm making a speculative leap of assumption and am saying that this trade magazine was showing a 1910 Harley-Davidson twin. Now, that could mean that the illustration was created in late 1910 from a trade show where H-D was introducing th3 1911 twin. Regardless, the Merkel twin is a 1910 for what that's worth

[T. Cotten]

Automatic carburation and automatic carburetor are two different things and function quite differently although with somewhat similar end results.

Its obvious Folks!

Two letters are different.

....Cotten
PS: I hope like all hell that none of you expected an insipid emoticon in my reply.

[Rubone]

Automatic carburation and automatic carburetor are two different things and function quite differently although with somewhat similar end results.

[T. Cotten]

As most of us realize, Steve,...

All of our projects are only a work in progress, and may only "finish" when we do.

That's just another reason why an online roster to follow such progress would benefit not only ourselves as enthusiasts, and our posterity, but vintage motorcycling overall.

....Cotten

[Steve Swan]

Tom, thanks for sharing good information. The pics i posted, i got off internet, were the best ones i could find; when available would download original looking examples instead of restored. my hope is fellow members will share pictures and information to build on my meager start.

when it comes to anything but a '27 model, i have no clue what i'm looking for or at !

and i don't know much about '27 models either ! mine i built with my raw know-how, help from fellows like you and researching every bit of original information and pictures of unmolested originals i could find. never seen a 27 in the flesh, so i'm sure mine has some incorrect stuff on it, not withstanding repro parts when i couldn't find original parts.

[T. Cotten]

It's pretty, Steve!

But I need more resolution to learn anything.
(And anything that "restored" makes me scratch my chin anyway.)

Back to "automatic":

"Pravg Schebler" was a Euro website several years ago with great information, although I can no longer find it. (Doh! Found it: http://www.geocities.ws/pravgeusau/schebler.htm)

It was one of the first to prescribe a modern material such as Teflon to replace the leather airvalve seal.

It refers to 'automatic' with "The Schebler model "H" carburettor was one of the first so-called "automatic carburettors", allowing single cable control, for motorcycles."

...Cotten

[Steve Swan]

Gentleman ! How about these pics of what's supposed to be a 1911 twin...?

1911.jpg1911 LH.jpg

[Rooster]

Hey, everyone needs a safe place to hang out. Some people may have exhausted their options, but if there's a personal problem, the solution is easy- just don't read it! Nobody forces anyone to read the posts of another member. Take it or leave it, like it or not. If it's too (fill in the blank) ____________ , then just hit the BACK button, or better yet, the big X. Problem solved.

[Robert Luland]

Tom, your around here a lot lately? You get thrown off a couple more forums? Bob

[T. Cotten]

PPS: Silentgreyfellow.

What have you contributed to vintage motorcycling?