Schebler carb

[23JDCA 808]

fuel

Are you using fresh gasoline? The stuff can age and be hard to fire in an antique motor. Also, I'd drain it out when you're done. Turns our the new fuels are becoming more corrosive with the addition of ethanol; and it may dissolve the original float bowl float. I have bought a replacement float from Cotton. The corrosive/gel thread is on this AMCA site ...somewhere. ...bill

[23JDCA 808]

A good source of info to get your bike running would be the Harley-Davidson Rider's Hand Book. The reprint for 1926 is available from nosparts.
It is shown in their '15-'29 catalog that can be downloaded at http://www.nosparts.com/download/dow...html#downloads
Only $10 but they seem to have a $50 minimum order.
Various versions of the Rider's Hand Book are also on eBay but some of the prices are high.

[23JDCA 808]

Here is a better price the the 1926 Rider's Hand Book.
http://antiquemotorcyclebooks.com/html/hd_285.htm
I would call them to place the order and confirm availability ...bill

[Tommo]

Ian,
How are you making out with that Model H?
The most important initial setting on a model H is the "Air Valve Spring" setting, too light and it won't get enough fuel to start and too heavy and it will be way too rich.
The "Air Valve" needs an initial setting of somewhere between 5 to 7 ounces to enable the motor to be started.
I have made a forked weight of 6 ounces that sits through the mouth of the "Air Horn" and rests on the "Air Valve".
You then tension the spring using the nut on the end of the shaft so that the "Air Valve" opens when you tap the weight lightly with your finger.
This is all done with the "Air Valve" assembly removed from the carb and please remember to secure the nut with a split pin again so it won't come off.
The other thing to remember is that the choke cam on the inlet side of the assembly should be roughly in the middle of it's travel so that once the motor is running you can then adjust the spring tension on the "Air Valve" to either richen or weaken the mixture.
Don't get too concerned with the carb numbers as any Model H carb should at least run quite well, it's only when you come down to the final, fine tuning when you may have some troubles.
Cotton talks about manifold air leaks and their importance and they are just as important here but you also have two extra ones with a Model H and both of these tend to give the Model H a bad name.
Firstly the Air Valve must be air tight on it's seat and secondly the choke shaft must be a good fit inside the sleeve that the Air valve mounts on. As the bike runs the air valve opens and shuts at a very fast rate on that choke shaft and the shaft really does wear at a fairly fast rate resulting in air being drawn along the choke shaft and upsetting the mixture.
So long as all these things are attended to there is no reason why your bike shouldn't run.
Hope you can understand what I'm saying here but if not ask me to explain further what-ever is troubling you.
All the best, Tommo

[partshunt]

Hello all:- Please excuse me if I am adding something here that may already be posted from all the help Ian is getting. A great response from all. I only scanned over the replies so, again I apoligize for any repetition. Ian sez he is unfamiliar with the early models so I might add if not mentioned earlier. The HX-189 is for an Indian Scout, 1924-25. From the Schebler Manual, the 189 has a no. 55 jet, the 160, a no. 52. both 1 inch carbs, both having 1-1/8 leathers. Should run fine, compensate as mentioned with the airvalve spring. Also, re the mag, the Bosch should be marked on the gear end cover 42 or 45 deg. Also, dont forget, no 1 cyl. is the rear barrel. Makes it easy to pull that rear upper cylinder mount and cylinder plug to check BTDC with a pin. 7/16 I think....Also, keep that auxilliary air valve on the side always closed, its only intended for max high speed, the only time I open it is to help clear a flooded engine..........Joe

[Ian Biddle]

Thanks for the input guys. I've been on holiday in Italy for two weeks so haven't looked at the bike (or web) since.

There is fuel to the cylinder ok and there is (appears to be) a good spark. The motor will cough when fuel is inserted into the cyls but not run.

I'm looking at the mag now. The Bosch 'looks' correct and I mentioned the angle earlier. You're right it could be a 42 degree Indian but I can't tell just by looking. I'll try to borrow a mag from an F and see it that works.

An another point, I just bought a Knuckle from a guy in Seattle. Fuel drained and flat battery but after tinkering and charging it fired - rough but then I got it going properly.

Thats why I think the F should run, however poorly ... unless something is wrong (or incorrect) ... like maybe the mag. I'll keep you posted.

[Ian Biddle]

Thanks again, I 'replied' to an earlier link in my mailbox by mistake so missed the last two comments.

The motor and carb have been rebuilt, new plugs and fresh fuel and I have the hand book.

I now get the impression that the carb (although incorrect for the F) 'should work so thats where I'll focus. Sounds like the air valve needs more attention so I'll check that next.

I can't see degrees marked on the mag so will have another look again. I really appreciate the help. Thank you.

[partshunt]

Hi Ian:- I wouldnt swap mags just yet. Its easier to check the timing. If your points are just opening at say 7/16 BTDC on the rear cylinder, you can check to see if the points do the same on the front cylinder checking thru the spark plug hole with a wire rod bent to "feel" the position of the front cylinder. Be the same on a 45 degree but very early on the front cylinder if its a 42 degree. Does that make sense and can you try that?..Joe

[Ian Biddle]

Thanks Joe, I've got that and will give it a go.

Ian

[Ian Biddle]

We've got a weight of 6 1/4 ozs but still no joy on getting it to run. The story gets more interesting!

I've had a friend look at this and after checking the timing marks on the gear wheels (which all line up) he's identified that the mag pinion mark is wrong. The mag is definately 45 degrees but by measuring TDC the mark is wrong and hence the spark arrives at the wrong time.

This should be an easy (!) fix with some trial and error.

He asked an interesting question - why was the bike layed up in the 1940's ? We know the carb was missing - maybe there were other problems with the bike, maybe someone was given a mag with an incorrect pinion gear, they couldn't get the bike to run and just put it in the shed.

The gear must be the right size (obvious) so next is the timing mark and then the carb settings. Its all part of the fun.

I'll keep you posted, and thanks for all your help.

Ian

[Ian Biddle]

IT'S WORKING.

The timing mark was two teeth out. Good spark and fuel so it should have run, thats why we wondered about the mag.

After refering to your information given on the carb settings she fired up without a problem. Now I need to get her out on the road and work on some fine tuning and high speed settings.

Thanks to eveyone for their interest and to Joe, Tommo and Bill for their advice.

I'll try and post a picture although the last time I tried the computer said the file was too large(?)

Thanks again everyone and best regards from England.

[23JDCA 808]

Great! ...bill

[partshunt]

Hello Ian I can mention one other thing that dont matter now. In regards to the timing gear, that is the gear on the mag itself. There were two gears, one for a Dixie and another for the Bosch. Maybe thats why the timing mark discreptantcy. I just time mine by when the points just break before TDC. Also, since I never tried mixing the gears with the two mags mentionmed, I cant say if they can be interchanged one way or the other...Joe

[T. Cotten]

Airvalve tension for 3/4" models?

First, I wish to thank Tommo for his generosity with priceless information!

Using his direction, I made a platform where I could adjust the 'fluttervalve' tension accurately without my jittery five thumbs getting in the way: (attached).

I can get a 1 1/4" model with the larger spring into the 5 ounce range, although a bit compressed. But it seems obvious that the 3/4" models, with the lighter spring, are designed for a lesser tension. Otherwise, I must thread the shaft nearly to the valveseat.

With valves of nearly the same diameter, it only confuses me further...

Thanks in advance again for any help at all!

....Cotten

[partshunt]

Hello Cotton: I am looking for your pic you submitted a while back of your mod H Air Valve tester. I recall seeing it before this site got modified a few months ago and many pic attachements were lost..thanks in advance...Joe

First, I wish to thank Tommo for his generosity with priceless information!

Using his direction, I made a platform where I could adjust the 'fluttervalve' tension accurately without my jittery five thumbs getting in the way: (attached).

I can get a 1 1/4" model with the larger spring into the 5 ounce range, although a bit compressed. But it seems obvious that the 3/4" models, with the lighter spring, are designed for a lesser tension. Otherwise, I must thread the shaft nearly to the valveseat.

With valves of nearly the same diameter, it only confuses me further...

Thanks in advance again for any help at all!

....Cotten