Where Have All The XAs Gone?

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by Rockin Ronny O
Okay, forget the experimental 37ci XA.

WHERE'S THE MINT ONE IN THE GUYS BAR???!!!

Rockin' Ronny O!

It was in a barn, not a bar.

See how these things get changed?

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by mmoore
I think it too late as i been sniffing it too long trouble is it says it for hydraglide or model k forks I dont think i can get any more

Sort of like vintage wine...only better!

If you found that EZ article mentioning that supposed 37-ci "XA", could you maybe quote that paragraph for us here word for word?

If we see the exact wording maybe it will give us some clues.

Nothing like a new Harley mystery!

Thanks

[mmoore]

ok here it is "In 1942 came an expermental model copied directly from the german armys BMW that had been flattening the sands of north africa under Rommel's command. A U.S. goverment contract was given to Harley-Davidson (and Indian)for 1000 units. The H-D prototype was named the XLA and displaced 37 cubic inches. A hot oil problem led to the creation of the 45-inch XA model. A complete retooling procedure was required to put this horizontally opposed twin into production. Other unique features to this experimental Army vehicle included a shaft drive mechanism, three speed transmission with two-speed rear axel, andtwo-wheel drive sidecar attachment. This unit was abandoned because of increases in Jeep production." since I had cut this article out maney years ago the author had no credits or references on any of the pages I saved. it may have his name in the front index but have not seen that issue I belive now it was in 1980 by the way I wonder if ronnie has been searching in all the bars yet?

[HarleyCreation]

Originally posted by mmoore
ok here it is "The H-D prototype was named the XLA and displaced 37 cubic inches. A hot oil problem led to the creation of the 45-inch XA model.

That is a very solid statement of "fact" isn't it?

Hmmm.......

(20 minutes later)

Okay, I just took Jerry's Inside H-D into the Throne Room and perused the XA section. I think I have an possible explanation to offer.

On page 201 it says that even in the bid stage the XA was called XA and it was 750cc (45ci).

However, on the next page it also states that Harley discovered the regular flathead 45 WLA army model engine ran a 100 degrees HOTTER than the opposed XA engine.

Now if you substitute an "X" for "W" in WLA that would make XLA wouldn't it? And also right there you have the hotter motor detail too.

Now it doesn't say anything about a 37-ci motor, but a few pages earlier it states that the army wanted bids on a 30.50-ci motor and Harley declined, saying it would be underpowered. That's not 37 but it's closer.

Here's my hunch what happened.

Hatfield's book didn't come out until around 1990, and this EZ article is from around 1980, so obviously he didn't read the book.

However, back in 1980, just about anyone could get into H-D's archive room. Since Hatfield's info came from original H-D Board Minutes, Reports, etc. an earlier writer around 1980 may well have looked at those same documents and took notes, and probably rushed if not downright crappy notes.

When he got home and wrote up the article he misread his own notes and messed things up. He turned WLA into XLA and somehow thought there was a smaller engine with a heating problem while the hotter engine was actually the standard WLA. The 37 ci motor might be the reference to the Army wanting a 30.50 motor.

Just a theory but always expect the unexpected in the wonderful wacky world of Harley-Davidson History Land!

Originally posted by mmoore
by the way I wonder if ronnie has been searching in all the bars yet?

More fun searching in bars than in barns, eh?

[mmoore]

maybe that is why he did not sign his work. the author never refers to them as bikes so I wonder if he was familar with motorcycles. I'm still waiting on a response from H-D so hopefully this is almost over. your theory sounds pretty solid to me I got a feeling that might be what has happened. I can understand Harley not wanting to supply a 30.50 , as a owner of a 34 they are somewhat short of power. I dont dare take it on any interstate. anyway its time to get the fork oil can out and relaxe!!

[mmoore]

I havent heard from ronnie yet I wonder if we gave him a good excuse to get out of the house and go bar hopping?

[Rockin Ronny O]

Just returned from the bar looking that "mint" XA. Unfortunately, the only mint I found was in a Julip!

I'll keep lookin'!!

[HarleyCreation]

You guys crack me up! This is a fun thread and XAs are cool anyway.

And you're right mmoore. The unnamed author calls them "units" or "vehicles" and not motorcycles as if maybe he's reading this off something else.

I just thought of another possibility. Harry Sucher's book on Harley-Davidson came out around 1981 or so. I wonder what he says in there about the XA? 1980 and 1981 are pretty closely dated.

While Mr. Sucher's books contain some very interesting claims and stuff you don't find anywhere else, he's not always accurate. Maybe worth taking that tome into the Throne Room today.

(later edit)

I took Sucher's book to the T.R. and nope, nothing at all in it like this EZ claim. Not much on the XA at all in fact. I'll stick with my crappy-notes theory from orig. H-D docs until something better comes along...

[mmoore]

I might be gone for a while as I think ronnie needs some help

[petri]

XA Pics

I stopped at Dale's Wheels Thru Time motorcycle museum in Maggie Valley NC this weekend and he has a couple of XA's I took pictures of. I might as well post them so here they are.

Howard

[petri]

XA Pic

And here's the other one I photographed

Howard

[Rockin Ronny O]

I didn't know they had two XAs there. I thought it was only one (first one that was white).

Glad to see they found my Cadillac, too! Must have left it at the bar along with the XA.

Thanks for the great pictures.

Wasn't the 1919-1921 H-D Sport (fore & aft opposed twin) about 37 cubic inches ? Or was it closer to 30?

Maybe the Factory tried to turn that engine sideways into a BMW style and modify it to make the Army's requirements before producing the XA as we know it today?

[petri]

W-Opposed

I am rereading Hatfield's book on Harley flatheads and just read about the W's. They had a displacement of 35.6 cu in (584cc) not 37 nor 30. A rather odd displacement. And I photographed one of those at Wheels thru Time last weekend so here it is. Hatfield's book has some nice pics.

Howard

[HarleyCreation]

Re: W-Opposed

Originally posted by petri
I am rereading Hatfield's book on Harley flatheads and just read about the W's. They had a displacement of 35.6 cu in (584cc) not 37 nor 30. A rather odd displacement. And I photographed one of those at Wheels thru Time last weekend so here it is. Hatfield's book has some nice pics.

Howard

That is a rather odd displacement.

I always assumed British influence in that Sport Model. You gotta figure that Harley-D was very involved with the Brits during WWI and they came home infatuated with with British motorcycle scene and how successful it was. Even H-D riding gear had a British "tweedy" look in the early 1920s.

The XA was a totally different project, however, and directly copied from the German BMW due to its superior qualities namely shaft-drive. As one old guy told me: "That wasn't our motorcycle." Meaning Harley copied it for the Army.

[VPH-D]

I was always under the impression that H-D was asked to copy the BMW, and Indian the Moto Guzi.
VPH-D