1920 Sport Twin Pictures

[denismccarthy]

Thanks Guys

All very interesting! Louie you put forth a very compelling argument. I have a few historical Harley-Davidson photos that are claimed to have been taken in March, 1920. The author points out that they are 1921 models because of the tank trim. The Author (Jerry Hatfields "Inside Harley-Davidson, An Engineering History of the Motor Company From F-heads to Knuckleheads 1903-1945") on page 45, "These Sport Models, however, show the 1921 tank trim. Production proceeded in batches, and these are the first of the 1921 models to be assembled. Harley-Davidson" Furthermore in the same text on page 48, "The Sport Tank trim was simplified for 1921".

From Rick Conners "Harley-Davidson Data Book", page 26

1921 Model Year changes
Big Twin style tank trim
Fenders both center ribbed
Side panels on Front Fender
Brake Lever guide
Revised headlight body

I wonder if it could have been possible that they changed the tank trim during the 1920 production? Louie, would you mind telling me the serial number of the 1920 models that you owned that had the "Simplified Tank Trim"? Mine is W20F3280. I believe they built 4459 WF models in 1920 and 810 WJ's. So mine is kinda late. Which if they did do a change that year I would think it would have been on this one too? Hmm.

Thanks for any help!

Take care

[LouieMCman]

Serial numbers are another topic, the registry states they made WJ's and WF's in 1920 but mine is 20W1415. It is a magneto model of course but no F in the serial number. As you can see it's an early 1920. I no longer own the other Sport models, one was a 1920 and the other a 1923. I do have a couple spare tanks though, one is in primer but the other is an original paint with script decal. I don't know if there is any way to tell what year it is, it is the olive drab paint not the brewster green.

[Tommo]

Since you raised the point of period photos Louie I've spent quite a bit of time looking through my collection of stuff to see if I could find anything.
I've found quite a number of photos with the Shield style decal in 1920 publications but there is no definate way of knowing if its a 1919 bike photographed in 1920 or if it is in fact a 1920 bike.
I don't have any 1920 Enthuisiast magazines or a 1920 sales brochure so maybe someone that has might have a look for us and that might help to clear things up.
My bike is 20W 1812 but when Dad purchased a large quantity of NOS Flat Twin parts he replaced anything on the bike with new parts from this stash so the bike is not really as it left the factory.
By the way I do have a large quantity of NOS flat twin parts that are available for sale.

[Chris Haynes]

What year are these?

[Chris Haynes]

[Tommo]

Chris,
Those 3 photos appear in Hatfields, Inside Harley-Davidson and my guess is 1919 for the first two and late 1920 for the second one.
As far as I'm aware the open ended handlebar grips were only used in 1919 and Gas lighting on the flat twins was replaced by electric in 1920.
I'm pretty sure Harley would be showing electric lights if that second photo was of a 1920 model.
Louie, what do you think?

[denismccarthy]

What year are these?

Hey Chris,

I'll have a swing... I'd say the top photo is 1919 Sport Twin model "W" One of 753 for that year.

Picture number 2 I think is a 1920 WJ model, One of 823 for that year.

Picture number 3 is early batch of 1921 models with the new tank trim, looks like WF models, (I don't see any tail lights yet assembled..). Production for 1921 I believe was 1100.

What do you think?

See ya

[denismccarthy]

Serial numbers are another topic, the registry states they made WJ's and WF's in 1920 but mine is 20W1415. It is a magneto model of course but no F in the serial number. As you can see it's an early 1920. I no longer own the other Sport models, one was a 1920 and the other a 1923. I do have a couple spare tanks though, one is in primer but the other is an original paint with script decal. I don't know if there is any way to tell what year it is, it is the olive drab paint not the brewster green.

Now this is getting fun! Louie, if your Original Paint tank is Olive, it would have to be before 1922. That is when I believe they changed the primary color (to brewster green) and the pin striping to double gold, and in 1923 to triple gold pin. So the original tank should fall between 1919 and 21. My buddy John and I were talking about this today. So I believe that I have photos of the factory on or about March, 1920. The Author points out that "these are the first of the 1921 models..." So if the factory was just starting to build the 1921 model in March of 1920, do you guys think they were just starting to build the 1920 model in March of 1919? I remember reading that the Sport Twin was first seen some time in 1918. I don't know if it was just a drawing or a mock-up or a prototype. I do know the model was introduced sometime in the middle of 1919. Which perhaps means it was assembled at the factory early 1918? All of that being said, if a design change, such as the one that was seen in 1921, well, not really a design change, but a change in the "features", such as decals and paint, that would have been put on the table early in 1920.? So, I would think they would have figured on enough parts, such as decals to carry them through to the point that the factory needed to start making the new model. Does that make sense? Which for the 1920 model would have been made in early 1919! Wooof!

....I'm thinking way to hard for a Friday.

[MartinK]

Hello Tommo,
I am restoring a sport at the moment and I am looking for some parts. I would like to get in contact with you.

regards
Martin

[MartinK]

Sorry for a stupid question. Open ended handle bar grips, do they look like this with the handlebar nut inside?
grip.jpg

[MMasa]

What year are these?

Chris
Any way you could email me the high res versions of the rh and lh views of that sport model?
Mark Masa

[Tom Wilcock]

I have noted on frames I have that the seat post tube on early 1919's is approx. 1 1/8" OD from top to bottom. On another, later 1919 frame the seat post tube is 1 1/8" at the very top but it tapers to 1 1/4 before it gets to the casting for the cross tube under the tank. It is 1 1/4" from there right to the bottom. My 1920 frame is the same as the late 1919 frame except the casting where the horizontal cross tube under the tank joins does not go right around the seat post tube but merely has 2 tabs that wrap just over 1/2 way around on each side. The early (1919-21?) gas tanks have the threaded inserts for the shift gate and top tank strap attachment soldered to the tank from the inside. The later tank has the 2 shift gate and 1 tank strap threaded inserts swedged onto a steel plate which is soldered to the tank on the outside. The other top tank strap insert is swedged to a washer and is also soldered to the tank on the outside. With regard to the tank decals I was told years ago by Del Duchene and also by the late Leon Landry who was a Harley dealer(and his dad before him) that 1919 and 1920 used the shield decal and 1921-23 used the script one. I am searching for documentation. Tom #381

[denismccarthy]

Thanks Tom

Thats really interesting to hear. I'll have a close look at my frame on Monday. I had my tank repaired in Canada, with one side of the tank replaced. I still have the other side, so I'll have a look at it too. Please keep us up to date on anything you find.

Thanks again!

[Tommo]

If you look on the machined surface where the engine plates mount to the seat post you will find the frame number
I've never seen a frame that doesn't have a number and this will tell you the year of the frame.

Martin the 1919 models had a hex head screw holding the handlebar sprials on and a grip with no end in it.
The 1920 and later model had the slotted screw and semi closed end grip like in your attachment.

[LouieMCman]

oh damn, another discrepacy on my '20 it has the hex head screws holding the spirals on.... hummm