45 Flathead Belly Numbers

[Jerry Wieland]

Chris, I actually have a friend in the archives and one of my riding buddys' sons is an engineer in the Service Department and both claim that nothing of the sort exists anymore as any kind referenceable data base - if it ever did. Whenever I have asked for such information that is basically the answer that I get.

Jerry

[Chris Haynes]

Brian,
The Service Department does no mechanical work. Their offices are in the Juneau Ave building. They coordinate warranty work, ETC. If you have any friends still working at the MoCo ask them if they knew Al Builder who worked there. Al showed me these lists back in the '90's. I asked him how far back the information went and he said back to the first line bore number. Al was a retired LEO and knew the importance of this information. Yes, I have seen this information with my own eyes.

[bmh]

Jerry,
Have you ever heard the expression that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing? That goes on at H-D.
If you know a friendly person at an H-D dealership or a friendly LEO give them a Line Bore number and the Serial Number attached to it and have them contact the H-D SERVICE DEPARTMENT at 3700 Juneau Ave. to see if the two go together. Or if you just have a right case with no left give them that line bore number and see what pops up. Carefull doing the latter as it could possibly be stolen. Like most right cases laying around without a mate.

Chris, have you ever actually done this? Lately? Good friends of mine who recently retired from H-D as product auditors in quality control had informed me years ago that these records no longer exist, at least in the case of civilian machines. I did not ask about military bikes. The records only go back to the mid 60's at best, and they are not very complete at all before the new ID number was added inside the gearcase in the late 70's or so. These newer records include info on the tranny, the forks and much else. All of which is numbered on later machines. The only thing my brother in-law the State Trooper could tell me was that my numbers were not listed as being reported stolen anywhere in the U.S. in the past seven years. He told me they really don't keep records of vehicle theft after about that time frame as the statute of limitations for the crime has expired and there is no point in clogging the system with useless info on crimes that can't be prosecuted.

All the service dept is these days is an engine re-manufacturing facility where they throw away 75% of your motor and replace with new production parts ( this often includes cases). And they wont touch anything pre-84. In fact pre-92 motors are often scrapped on arrival and a fresh replacement motor of latest spec and design is numbered and sent out. Another old friend is the sales manager at the local dealer and he could not get verification one way or the other of my pan cases having a matched set of numbers either just a few years ago. He said all he can do is check with the police to find out if a VIN is on the hot sheet or not, and he's worked there for 30+ years (through three different owners). I hear people talk of this mysterious LEO list of numbers, but I can't find anyone with access to it, and I've really tried.

[Chris Haynes]

Jerry,
Have you ever heard the expression that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing? That goes on at H-D.
If you know a friendly person at an H-D dealership or a friendly LEO give them a Line Bore number and the Serial Number attached to it and have them contact the H-D SERVICE DEPARTMENT at 3700 Juneau Ave. to see if the two go together. Or if you just have a right case with no left give them that line bore number and see what pops up. Carefull doing the latter as it could possibly be stolen. Like most right cases laying around without a mate.

[Jerry Wieland]

It wasn't available in the late 80's when I purchased a new replacement set of HD shovelhead cases for a 1976 FX that I had bought with a destroyed motor. I sold the bike in Colorado and for some reason it set off an alarm with their DMV and the FBI came to my door wanting to know where I had acquired the cases from. He showed me a statement from HD stating that these replacement cases were never acquired thru them. It took about 100 phone calls and my receipt of purchase from my local HD dealer to make the FBI and Colorado DMV happy. HD never admit that they could possibly have screwed up. To the very end they maintained that the cases did not come from them.

I do not believe that the list exists if it ever did.

Jerry

[Chris Haynes]

This list has absolutely no information about the machine . Simply the line bore number followed by the serial number stamped on the case. Some recorde of bike color and accessories along with the name of the dealer it was shipped to is available. I have never requested this. I understand is is available for mid sixties and later machines.

[hdrl1935]

I would like it made public, or at least have access to it.

When I had my '69 Chevy C-20, I called up GM, and talked to the 'restoration' dept, or something like it. Based on my VIN number they sent me a packet of info telling me exactly how my truck left the factory and with what options.

Would I be interested in this for my Harley? You bet your ass I would. And I don't understand how it would increase 'number jobs' anymore than a car or truck.

[Ohio-Rider]

I think Chris is right in his comment about an increase in thefts if the cards were made public. Exactly what value would an individual gain by seeing his VIN'S card?
VPH-D

I agree that the list should probably not be made public but, there is a middle of the road solution. Why not expand the people allowed to look at this list to include anyone with a legitamate title in hand? The value would be in the peace of mind of knowing you own an original engine and if you decide to sell it at some point it would surely be an asset to assure a buyer that the engine has been verified as the real Mccoy. -Steve

[Paps]

Excellent points about the releasing of the vin verses belly numbers but....newly stamped vins and numbers are identifiable. A fresh stamping leaves a fingerprint of newness. Any legit fresh stampings would be documented. Old original unusable cases would be confinscated before the stamping of replacement would be legalized. The paper trail would be up to date as well.

[vph-d]

I think Chris is right in his comment about an increase in thefts if the cards were made public. Exactly what value would an individual gain by seeing his VIN'S card?
VPH-D

[flat-happy]

i think all it would really mean is all the motorcycles that were originally built would still exist. they didn't build that many anyway. most of the truly original bike are well documented already. i think anyone who would really object to releasing the number info would only do so because they were not one of the new owners. greed is a horrible thing.

[Ohio-Rider]

It is not lost. It is in the H-D Service department. It is only available the H-D dealers and law enforcement. It is a numerical list of line bore numbers with the serial number applied to that case next to it.

Isn't that a bit like the fox's watching the chicken coupe? Great! Another example of Big Brother watching our backs for us.

What good is information if it isn't shared equally across the board?

[Chris Haynes]

So Paps,
Consider if an unscrupulous person knows both line bore numbers and the serial number that went with it. And he also has a set of stamps. Number jobs would rise to new heights.

[Paps]

It is not lost. It is in the H-D Service department. It is only available the H-D dealers and law enforcement. It is a numerical list of line bore numbers with the serial number applied to that case next to it.

I can unstand that Chris but those records should be available to the public now, just like automotive vin numbers are now. Carfax for example. I would think the MoCo has not got all of the military vin data though. I doubt very much the military contacted the MoCo, everytime they changed out an engine, especially on the field of battle. The military noted the mil spec registration from one engine to another, the original mil spec registration denoted to the original factory produced machine would have been reassigned to the replacement engine. I sincerely doubt the MoCo received that information. It is that data...the military data...which is really lost and yet found. Paps

[cdndewey]

Sorry for the confusion. Its not something I read, rather it is something I own. I have a 1945WL with matching five digit belly numbers and a four digit VIN number.

That's interesting Steve. I just went and checked my 42 and 43 WLC's and the 43 also has a 5 digit belly number and a 4 digit VIN, and the 42 has 5 digits on both numbers.