'32 VL Hand oil pump operation

[loch]

Basic question, I'm going through the '32 VL. I am somewhat unfamiliar with it. I expected the hand oil pump to operate similar to the fuel valve on our '50 FL, e.g., twist the knob counter clockwise and then pull up to release the reserve fuel. In this case, twist to release the rod for pumping action. But looking at the photo and diagram in Steve's book, the hand oil pump rod doesn't appear to be threaded at the bottom. When I pull the knob up it doesn't move. I will only rotate. I've also rotated the knob with a slight upward pressure with no luck.

First I need to understand how it supposed to operate when functioning correctly.

[Steve Swan]

loch, idk if the VL hand pump is same as JD, but if it is, then there is a pin in the bottom, and a notch in knob that needs to align with notch in order to pull up the pump rod/ Hope this might help.

[Steve Slocombe]

Steve is right, and sometimes it helps to unscrew the threaded top collar from the tank a few turns. The hand pump on the VL is more or less a relic and used only for putting fresh oil in the cases after draining them. Any advice in the handbook to put in extra pumps for deep wading or long hills can usually be ignored, as the throttle controlled mechanical pump does the work. However, the hand pump can still cause you grief, as it works with a simple ball and spring check valve at the bottom. On an older bike this can drain oil into the crankcases when standing, and confuse you into thinking the mechanical pump needs adjusting. Remove the hand oil line and check for drips, then pump the remaining oil into a can and remove that check valve for service.

[loch]

Thanks, Steve, and Steve!

Both oil lines are leaking at the connection to the tank. My first job was to drain the oil from the tank and inspect the fittings. I understand the connections are originally soldered in. I don't want to break the solder joints by over-tightening. Any ideas on eliminating the leaks? I haven't drained the tank yet. Once I do, I'll loosen and look at the fittings. Someone recommended
TFC dope. I have no idea what that is though. Is it a lubricant to prevent the threads from seizing, or something to seal the threads?

Anyway, I started to fiddle with the hand pump - shiny object distraction. And that's when I noticed it didn't extend from the closed position.

Good information on the recommendations regarding efficient use of the hand pump.

-Loch

[Steve Swan]

Thanks, Steve, and Steve!

Both oil lines are leaking at the connection to the tank. My first job was to drain the oil from the tank and inspect the fittings. I understand the connections are originally soldered in. I don't want to break the solder joints by over-tightening. Any ideas on eliminating the leaks? I haven't drained the tank yet. Once I do, I'll loosen and look at the fittings. Someone recommended
TFC dope. I have no idea what that is though. Is it a lubricant to prevent the threads from seizing, or something to seal the threads?

Anyway, I started to fiddle with the hand pump - shiny object distraction. And that's when I noticed it didn't extend from the closed position.

Good information on the recommendations regarding efficient use of the hand pump.

-Loch

i believe TFC dope is the white teflon tape that plumbers use for sealing pipe threads? i use this white teflon tape to seal the threads of ferrule joints of where the oil pipes connect to engine and tank. if you don't have a roll, you should be able to source it at the hardware store.

[loch]

Thanks, Steve.

I'm very familiar with Teflon tape. Used it a lot when I was salvage diver in the Navy. We used it to seal the threads on air fittings. A good tool kit should always have a roll.

[joe fxs fxr]

While teflon tape will work, I prefer teflon joint compound, i.e. pipe dope. No worries about excess tape coming loose inside the joint and traveling thru the oil system.

71h1pWK0zqL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

[HDSmitty]

The pump rod will pull out for proper operation but sometimes can be very tricky to get into just the right rotation. Its a pretty small notch or whatever that you need to find to enable the rods extraction. Keep at it......it's there, just hard to feel. Sometimes just gentle upward pressure is better than really pulling on it. Good thing, like Steve said, you only really use it to replace the oil after draining the cases. Hope this helps.......Smitty

[loch]

Thanks, Smitty, Joe!

Update: yesterday I mucked around with the hand-pump again. I did unscrew the cap all the way. During this process I periodically rotated the knob with gentle upward pressure to see if the rod would extend. No joy. I ended up with the cap fully off and the rod still locked in the closed position. At this point I think draining the oil through the hand-pump oil line connection and removing the hand-pump is the course of action. I will better understand its operation when I can see the mechanism while I fiddle with it. I'm more interested at this point in knowing whether or not it's broken and whether or not it can form a proper seal when closed.

Joe, there is definitely a technique to applying tape that keeps "excess" from invading the system. If when I reassemble and test, the connections still don't seal I will consider the pipe dope.

[loch]

Update, this morning I was able to extend the hand pump. I also noticed the detent that pins the pump closed. After some studying of the mechanism I came to the conclusion that the knob was just stuck. Most likely from inattention and lack of use. I say this because I recall the detent was already in the groove on the knob. But not knowing how the mechanism worked I didn't realize it. Once freed it locks and unlocks with ease. I think going forward a dab of lithium grease might help keep it from sticking again.

You can see the detent in the second picture if you look closely. Look back at the first pic and you can see the edge of the break in the lower ring of the knob. This break is where the detent fits. Slight pressure to close the pump, then twist so that the detent rides on top of the ring.

After freeing the pump shaft I removed the oil lines for draining and cleaning. Then I cycled the pump without thinking and shot a large blob of oil onto the front fender. Yup! I'm happy to report, the pump functions correctly.


VLOilHandPumpExtended.jpg


VLHandOilPumpDetent.jpg

[Steve Slocombe]

If you undo the knurled collar in the tank top you can pull out the complete oil pump rod. The base looks like a bicycle pump and is often worn or incorrectly assembled. There is a picture in the VL restoration book. A full stroke of the hand oil pump should deliver nearly two ounces of oil, if you have a measuring jug handy.

[loch]

This oil pump isn't going to deliver 2oz. with each pump. I would be surprised if it did. The rubber pieces (3563-12?), not sure what they're called since the book doesn't list them by name and number - to cross reference the part, they're only listed by part number. I'm hoping I can find the plunger gaskets and rubber pieces (3563-12) separately so I don't have to replace the entire assembly. The rubber on the plunger is worn out.

VLHandOilPumpShaft.jpg


VLHandOilPumpWasher.jpg

[RichO]

Most early pump packing were leather not rubber?

[Steve Slocombe]

Yes they are leather. Harbor Vintage should be getting some in stock.

[loch]

Thanks, Rich, Steve. Makes sense. In that case these are really worn out.