"Finish" on 1907-'08 Harley-Davidsons?

[Bill N.]

I tried to upload a shot but it was too big and would take me forever to resize...
I posted the shot here on my website...

http://www.oldironrider.com/1915Harley.html

FYI....This oil tank NOT from a 1915, just threw it on that page....

[Chris Haynes]

I saw pinstriping being done on H-D tanks with a brush in '82.

[silentgreyfello]

This is the earliest photo I have of spraying. That booth shows years of use.

Looks to be a 1915 HD sidecar (at the earliest), but perhaps a bit later but the guy is blocking the back end of the body to tell if there is a step-up near where the rear spring attaches.

[Bill N.]

I think if you look closely at the sidecar, you see that the basecoat has a little luster to it... looks to at least the second coat... Add polished varnish on top of that and you can imagine that these early machines were very shiny...
Wonder how many OSHA violations that pic would represent today... !

[silentgreyfello]

With lead based paint to boot!

[Chris Haynes]

Wonder how many OSHA violations that pic would represent today... !

Isn't Osha a small town in Wisconson?

[HarleyCreation]

Isn't Osha a small town in Wisconson?

No, that's probably Osseo, Oshkosh, or Osceola in Wisconsin you're thinking of. I think the Victory motors or something is built in Osceola. That's just down the road from here on the lower St. Croix River.

[HarleyCreation]

This is the earliest photo I have of spraying. That booth shows years of use.

A quick glance at H-D negative numbers says this photo is from the 1919-1920 period, possibly 1918. There is certainly a LOT of time between 1908 and 1918 for the spray paint process to come into use. You would think that somewhere along the line they would have bragged about their fancy spray equipment. It's probably in the record somewhere. Probably when the Red Brick Factory was being built and constantly expanded c1910-1916.

I'm still leaning towards brush in the early period, but really do not know. I myself have painted cars with a brush and if the paint is of the proper consistency it flows on very smoothly and without many brush marks. It would be good to figure the H-D brush/spray transition out.

PS: the worker doesn't seem to be wearing that "Oshkosh" mask. I'll bet he died young!

[Factoryno3]

spray painting

To the best of my knowledge the spray painting process started together with the use of Du Pont Nitrocellulose paints, and that shoud be somewhere between 1919 and 1921. Before I definately believe they used some kind of oil based paint warnished with Copal varnish, that was applied with brush. I also believe that Harley started to use single stage synthetic paints ("Enamel" as it was called at that time) in 1928. The "Enamel" paint was used up to the seventies by most automakers. The reasons I think were economical. Copal was very exensive in the old days as well as the oil paint and slow drying. It needed a lot of polishing afterwards. Nitrocellulose paints were cheaper and dried fast and could be applied easily with a spray gun. The drawback with the nitro paint was that a lot of paint was wasted due to overspray since the paint had be applied in many layers to build up sufficent paint thickness. To get the paint shine it also had to be polished by hand afterwards. When the enamel piants was released (also by Du Pont) it must have been a big change. You could apply one coat - either spray or dip, then shove it into the oven and in an hour getting a excellent and tough gloss surface, much harder than the Nitro paint it superceded.

[HarleyCreation]

What FactoryNo.3 says about the origin date of the spray painting process certainly matches the date of the Factory spray booth photo that Chris posted.

If correct, it would seem that the brush method was used throughout the teens which also matches the 1916 paint quote out of the H-D catalog.

This shouldn't be too hard to document but important for guys correctly re-painting early bikes. If they're spraying 'em when they should be brush painted that's a no-no!

[Factoryno3]

I agree fully. It should be very interesting to se a restored teens bike with the correct type of paint.

[silentgreyfello]

If they're spraying 'em when they should be brush painted that's a no-no!

I don't disagree to a point, but on the otherhand, the paint available today is much different when it comes to drying. I have tried hand painting some parts before and the new paints dry much too fast to flow out smoothly.

[Rubone]

If you regularly read the British magazines "Classic Bike" and "Classic MotorCycle" those guys hand paint restorations on turn of the last century through the twenties bikes all the time. The paints are available that will do it. There were hundreds of makers and all the finishes were hand applied, and the current owners still do it that way with amazing results.
Robbie

[Bill N.]

Here are a couple of intersting advertising points from Harley:
1914- Sidecar finish: "The body, mud guard and rim were enameled Harley-Davidson gray. Body trimmed with handsome dark striping. Sidecar frame and springs were enameld black. All parts finished in threecoats of enamel and one coat of varnish, each coat being baked separately. Finish is hand rubbed and in keeping every way with the high finish which has made the Harley-Davidson motorcycle so attactive to the eye."

From this we can safely conclude that each coat was followed by baking, the varnish being hand-rubbed out.

1916 Advertising: "All models were finished in Harley-Davidson gray enamel, artistically striped. The enamel was carefully put on (by hand we believe now ), each coat being oven baked. After the last coat of enamel had been baked and the striping applied, a coat of high grade transparent copal varnish was given as a final finish, this also being baked.
The last coats of enamel were most carefully APPLIED BY HAND (my caps) to insure an even distribution over all parts. Each coat of enamel was carefully hand-rubbed by expert finishers.
The final finish was the finest it was possible to produce and was unsurpassed by any other motorcycle made."

I guess that at least up to the 1916/17 time period, finishes were put on by hand.... It would be interesting if we could find out what other sales literature from Harleys competitors
said with regards to their finishes... I'd imagine that for the most part, they were all on the same page...

Now I'd like to find out what paints the Brits were using in their restorations to mimic this process.... My approach to early bike painting will certainly change with that info...

There is great info running through this thread...

[pem]

I don't know if this has ever been published but I just came across this recently. It is from 1914 and shows the plating room at HD. Standing closest to camera is Mr. Matt Viebrink and
polishing the handlebars is Brother Schroeder. This is a union photo and thats why they call him Brother.

Dick