the first Harley's

[c.o.]

Sez who? And on what proof?

Thanks for the dissection Herb. If I remember right, parts of Bruce's machine are thought to be earlier. I just find it fascinating that the MotorCo. would print that SNO #1 is the oldest machine when they likely know themselves that it's a parts bike. I'm not knocking the machine at all I'm just questioning how it's being represented.

[Slojo]

Herb
You are a valuable asset to this culture good job laying it out,,, Long Live Herb. I still would not kick this SNO 1 bike out of bed for leaking oil.
Joe

[Chris Haynes]

Herb,
Did they ever start that No One machine after the latest restoration?

[HarleyCreation]

Herb,
Did they ever start that No One machine after the latest restoration?

Not that I know of. They said it "could" be started, but they didn't want to because it was so rare and valuable.

But also, wasn't there a defect in the cylinder bore on that SNO motor?

That sure rings a bell.

[HarleyCreation]

Herb
You are a valuable asset to this culture good job laying it out,,, Long Live Herb. I still would not kick this SNO 1 bike out of bed for leaking oil.
Joe

Thanks.

No, I wouldn't kick SNO out either. That fenderless/white tire restoration by Ray Schlee is a great one IMO.

There's a little story that goes with it. Back when I heard it was apart and in pieces to be redone I sent Ray a copy of the early 1905 "line drawing" Harley (no fenders, racy looking, etc.) and suggested that was what the very first Harleys may have looked like. (That's when Marty Rosenblum also invited me to the Factory, etc. and I saw the pieces). But they remained firm (esp. Ray) that a (restyled) restoration could NOT be based on a mere line drawing. Nothing doing!

I argued otherwise, saying that line drawing was an authentic period drawing and the oldest known image of an H-D motorcycle, probably done by Bill Harley himself, and used on their first letterhead and early 1905 advertising. Plus the first known Harley appeared in a late 1904 race. That they probably did have a bike like that early on if not the prototype bike itself looked that way! What better look for the first bike in the collection?

But no, that line drawing image was not good enough evidence, so I was told. Imagine my surprise some months later when the bike appeared at Daytona in fenderless and racy looking form not unlike the line drawing image. Boy, was I surprised, and happy, because that fenderless racy look was what I had been advocating all along. I never did learn what exactly turned the tables or who made the final decision (because then things got crazy), but it did get that "look" and the rest is history.

But there's more!

Right around the time that bike appeared with its new fenderless look (but before it became the mythical SNO bike), Rick Morsher (Earl) made a landmark discovery. In a 1905 magazine he found an actual photograph showing an early 1905 Harley without fenders! (Previously the earliest known photo mid-June Mack '05 showed fenders.) This fenderless photo proved that the first production Harley(s) of 1905 lacked fenders and verified that the line drawing was darn close. In fact, the Ray Schlee restoration looked uncannily like Rick's early 1905 photo find, although curiously the Factory did NOT know or have that photo (none of us did!) until after the restoration was done. When the Factory heard that a new unknown "first" photo had been found great concern and anxiety arose at the Juneau Avenue HQ that they had gotten it wrong, although in fact they had gotten it incredibly right, at least up to that point.

Talk about the "ghost" stepping in and messing with us. But some things you just gotta believe in and that is the ghost of Harley past, esp. stuff that came off the drawing table of Bill Harley himself. The history of all this discovery (and more) is detailed in the Creation book, but not this little behind-the-scenes story (which I have just worn my house battery down typing while a big snow storm bears down for Christmas Eve.) But it is fun to think about again as those were heady days of new discoveries that came into our hands almost magically. Too bad things got all messed up after that.

[Slojo]

Once again Herb you have impresssed me with your ability to get the job done. Thanks Earl.
Joe

[Rubone]

Joe, Herb, and all the rest on this forum. You guys are a big part of what makes the day to day grind worth it! Herb, I can't wait for the next book. Joe, the build thread is the best ever. And the cabin is cool too! And Matt, Carl, Ryan, ansd everyone else, Merry Christmas, and a great Cannonball of a New Year!!
Robbie

[HarleyCreation]

Joe, Herb, and all the rest on this forum. You guys are a big part of what makes the day to day grind worth it! Herb, I can't wait for the next book. Joe, the build thread is the best ever. And the cabin is cool too! And Matt, Carl, Ryan, ansd everyone else, Merry Christmas, and a great Cannonball of a New Year!!
Robbie

Working on story about early Harley 8-valves. Already I have found 4 widely held myths (untruths) to discuss. One is so good it will be a sidebar article on its own!

[c.o.]

I can't wait to see that article in print!

You should check out this link Herb, it's quite the interesting machine advertised. (Jan. '05)

http://books.google.com/books?id=S98...age&q=&f=false

[c.o.]

oops........the link takes you to the magazine but you'll have to scroll down to pg. 169.

[pem]

Here's an early ad for a 1908 HD. "5th Year of Success"

This is the earliest ad I found so far attributing 1903 as the first year. I'm sure there are earlier. Or not!

Dick

[c.o.]

Dick, I'm sitting here wondering if that's a MotorCo. ad with the garage name printed at the bottom or is it simply an ad from the garage that sold H-D's?

[pem]

I wondered the same thing. I'm not sure.

[HarleyCreation]

I can't wait to see that article in print!

You should check out this link Herb, it's quite the interesting machine advertised. (Jan. '05)

http://books.google.com/books?id=S98...age&q=&f=false

Cory I tried going there but it says "Not Found."

What is it exactly? Can you quote it?

[HarleyCreation]

Dick, I'm sitting here wondering if that's a MotorCo. ad with the garage name printed at the bottom or is it simply an ad from the garage that sold H-D's?

It's an H-D factory ad with the garage name at the bottom. I've seen the ad before with the factory name on it.

Dick, this is a good find. That dealer Pierson in Janesville, Wis. is new to me. I didn't know about him. But there were some races out there early and this might explain that.