popes O.H.V.

[c.o.]

no, they came out of Kenosha Both were MINT and one was are you ready....... NEW OLD STOCK! I'm not saying anymore!!!

N.O.S.!!! Holy Smokes......... I'm glad Dick managed to drag a little more out of you! It makes for some pretty interesting reading! Thanks for sharing a little glimpse into your past.. It's a bummer you couldn't buy one of those engines back and it double sucks that Dick got sideswiped in such a manner! Thanks also to Dick for putting a few more pieces in the puzzle (for me at least anyway)!

[23JDCA 808]

Did P.E.M. stand for Perry E. Mack? ...bill

yes that is correct. It was not my initial intention to sell either of them but I buckled under to Doc Patt's arm twisting and let him have the "used" one for $600 . I then had to confront RL Jones with the fact one was gone as he had been pestering me as well and I let him have the nos one for the same price ! Don't have a clue what he did with that , he does sell on ebay sometimes , maybe you should ask him. It probably will be a bit more than $600 now but my bet is that he sold it. No turning back the clock I'm afraid, at least one got built into a bike. I am not surprised but sorry to hear your story. I approached Doc over the years about buying it back but he played evasive. Deals conducted in a gentlemanly fashion seem to have gone the way of the dodo as values skyrocket.

[pem]

What about Vince Martinico's bike? Is that a made up one too? I often wonder what happened to the 2 engines I had.

I have been following those motors for years. Doc Patt bought one from you if I'm correct and the other went to a man named Jones. I was going to buy Doc Patt's motor at Davenport years ago, we had the deal all made on the phone and when I got to Davenport
some guy from the west coast offered more money and I was never given the chance to chnage my offer. That motor eventually became Vince's and now is in the Jefferson racer
replica that you refer to as Vince Martinico's bike. As far as I know the engine and fuel tank are the only original pieces on that bike. The fuel tank was for sale at Davenport also years later for $800 and I thought it was to much. The same guy who bought the motor also bought that fuel tank. I could kick myself in the ass for not buying it then. Oh well!

The story is that you bought both motors from John Giorno. I assume that is true.

Dick

no, they came out of Kenosha Both were MINT and one was are you ready....... NEW OLD STOCK! I'm not saying anymore!!!

[c.o.]

What about Vince Martinico's bike? Is that a made up one too? I often wonder what happened to the 2 engines I had.

I was wondering the same thing. Barry...you had two engines!!?? Could they have been originally sold by Shuttleworth in Toronto or were they swapmeet finds?

[c.o.]

I only know of one. Joe Kollers P.E.M. and I'm not sure how much of that bike is original or
re-manufactured. I hope somebody has a Jefferson tucked away somewhere but I have never heard of any other bikes in 20 years of searching. There is also a racebike that had a
Waverley engine in a Indian frame that was taken to the west coast years ago in original condition but have lost the trail on that one too. There are no, none, nada, zilch original
made in Jefferson motorcycles that I know off. I hope I am wrong.

Dick

Wow! I hope you're wrong too!

What about Vince Martinico's bike? Is that a made up one too? I often wonder what happened to the 2 engines I had.

[pem]

I only know of one. Joe Kollers P.E.M. and I'm not sure how much of that bike is original or
re-manufactured. I hope somebody has a Jefferson tucked away somewhere but I have never heard of any other bikes in 20 years of searching. There is also a racebike that had a
Waverley engine in a Indian frame that was taken to the west coast years ago in original condition but have lost the trail on that one too. There are no, none, nada, zilch original
made in Jefferson motorcycles that I know off. I hope I am wrong.

Dick

[c.o.]

Dick, do you have figures on the number of Waverley/Jefferson/PEM machines that survived?

[Chris Haynes]

I have the Articles of Incorporation from Lake Motor Co. and they started in 1919. I don't think it could be earlier but you never know. The Merkel Motor Co. didn't incorporate until 1904 and we know they were making bikes earlier. And HD. The ad is really the front cover of a Lake Motor Co. brochure with no date on it.

I know of one other Lake motor but have lost contact with it.

Dick

H-D didn't incorporate untill 1907. The same year that Ole Evanrude started his marine motor business. Hmmmmmn.

When I took these photos Dan Pugens owned it.

OK, so maybe the "Lake" motorcycle has part of my old 'X" frame that I sold Dan for that purpose. I think the engine came from Rat.

[pem]

was that 'Rat's" motor?

When I took these photos Dan Pugens owned it.

[pem]

Yeah, what was the purpose? From the ad it implies you could specify the Lake for any configuration you needed.

What is the date of that ad? Why do I think it's 1919?

Do you know of any other Lake motors in existence? It sure is Perry E. Mack cool. Jeff did a very interesting thing with it so long as people don't think it's a real vintage make but like Cory said: "What might have been."

I have the Articles of Incorporation from Lake Motor Co. and they started in 1919. I don't think it could be earlier but you never know. The Merkel Motor Co. didn't incorporate until 1904 and we know they were making bikes earlier. And HD. The ad is really the front cover of a Lake Motor Co. brochure with no date on it.

I know of one other Lake motor but have lost contact with it.

Dick

Do you mean the Lake OHV motor that Dick posted or something else?

Harbor Vintage , Jonesville Vermont, ( Dave aka "Rat" Scherk ) had a Lake or a Mack? engine in his shop window for years, just curious if that was the one. Looked like his vendor setup in the picture.