Winchester motorcycle?

[sirhrmechanic]

Hell, I'm going to order a copy for me! [Belay that... already ordered a copy from ABE Books. Can't wait to read this. Should be fun!]

Again... great marketing! Long-term thinking for sure. Create a children's book about the validity of your vehicle! When the stakes rise into 7 figures... whatever works!

Cheers and thanks for sharing that! [I'll let everyone know what I think of the book and thanks again Scott!!!!]

[Scott Parker]

I can't wait to hear about the "positive ending" for Willy and his friends. I think they get rich and live happily ever after.

[Scooter Guy]

So...

What did the Winchester motorcycles sell for (or not?) this time around? I've poked around a little online just our of curiosity, but haven't found any info on the sales from the auction earlier this past weekend.

[rwm]

So...

What did the Winchester motorcycles sell for (or not?) this time around? I've poked around a little online just our of curiosity, but haven't found any info on the sales from the auction earlier this past weekend.

nada! it failed to meet reserve. julia's web page shows it at $0.00. it's just legendary bs. that requires a golden shovel.

[sirhrmechanic]

So over the course of about 10 minutes... I read Willy and The Winchester... a kids book for sure.

All I can say is that someone was genius to go so far as to use a kids book to try and provide/justify provenance. I mean... at least 50 years from now, there will be smitten customers.

As far as provenance goes... it's a kids book. Don't waste your money or time. The justification seems to be that a pocket watch and a tin sign existed that supports the idea of a Winchester MC. And that the Winchester Repeating Arms Co. contracted the Edwin F. Merry Corporation to build 200 bikes between 1909 and 1911. They also claim a that the Vol 31 no 1 issue (Spring 1977) issues of The Antique Motorcycle offers 'proof' that Winchester motorcycles were manufactured. The author also suggests that "Grandpa Arco" of the Arco Antiques Store on Main St. in Wauseon (sound familiar? Is there such a place??) was a source...

The picture of the pocket watch and the sign in the book, BTW, don't mention ANYTHING about the WRA Co. Just The Winchester Motorcycle. And the tin sign looks like a million other fake tin signs I see on eBay every time I try and find a motorcycle part. Sorry... just tenuous for a company that made just 200 motorcycles over 3 years...

The book also mentions that the motorcycle was featured in an issue of the Winchester Collector Magazine... (no Volume/date), the official magazine of the Winchester Arms Collector Association. But there is no reference to who wrote or placed THAT article. I don't subscribe to that... but perhaps someone here does.

It's all pretty tenuous if you ask me. And the whole book kind of smacks of desperation to prove that this is a motorcycle from the Gun Company... not just an interesting motorcycle made by someone else who called it Winchester. I mean... why do you have to have it linked to WRA if a highly unique and rare early motorcycle can be demonstrated to have a more likely provenance of being 'named' Winchester? Perhaps because it adds to the value among gun collectors? Maybe... But I would think that the fear, uncertainty and doubt created by trying to link it... obscures the really cool part which is that this is probably a significant motorcycle.

In any case, I won't violate Mr. J.A. Slack's copyright by posting the book here. But I can answer any further questions if anyone is interested. I'll post some more detail if anyone wants.

Finally, as a kids book... I highly recommend Green Eggs and Ham. For those who don't know... the Springfield Museum (Which houses the Indian collection) is also the Dr. Seuss Museum. Willy and the Winchester... doesn't hold a candle.

And on that note I'll conclude by saying "I'd like to ride my Indian Bike... I'd even ride an Indian Trike. I'd ride it through the hail and rain. I'd ride so fast I'd pass a train. I'd ride it in the spring and fall. I'd ride it and I'd have a ball. I'd ride it out to Wauseon. I'd ride it to Mohegan Sun. I'd ride my Indian Day and Night. It's better than a Winchester, right? So Sorry Willy, you had a nice try. But that Winchester I will never buy. I may like smelly green eggs and ham. But I'm not falling for a Winchester scam..."

Ok... I'm going to bed before I start channeling Charles Schultz and drawing Snoopy on a Winchester...

Cheers,

Sirhr

[AFJ]

They also claim a that the Vol 31 no 1 issue (Spring 1977) issues of The Antique Motorcycle offers 'proof' that Winchester motorcycles were manufactured.
Cheers,

Sirhr

Volume 31 no.1 of The Antique Motorcycle was the Spring 1992 issue. In reading through it and all four issues of the 1977 (vol. 16) The Antique Motorcycle any reference to a "W--------R" motorcycle escaped my notice.
Perhaps a "spurious reference"?

AFJ

[sirhrmechanic]

AFJ:

Says it's on Page 17... and it's part of an ad for M+M Offspring that has "Winchester" in it. The book specifically says Spring 1977, Vol 31 no. 1. Page 17.

Spurious reference... or maybe an 'accidental' typo.

As I said... tenuous.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[AFJ]

AFJ:

Says it's on Page 17... and it's part of an ad for M+M Offspring that has "Winchester" in it. The book specifically says Spring 1977, Vol 31 no. 1. Page 17.

Spurious reference... or maybe an 'accidental' typo.

As I said... tenuous.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Well, I looked at page 17 for the four issues of Vol. 31 (1992) and for the four issues for 1977 (Vol. 16) Nothing regarding M-M (Marsh-Metz) on those pages. Nothing regarding W--------R on any of those pages.
I will look further in other places - as time permits.
AFJ

[sirhrmechanic]

AFJ: I would not waste your time... I think the consensus is that Win****er motorcycles are fantasy pieces... at least as far as a relationship to the gun company goes.

On that note, maybe I should find a nice old Harley, paint Smith and Wesson down the side and come up with a story about how Daniel Wesson contracted to have 200 bikes made... and I could do a kids book and retire on the proceeds... And then there's the Colt motorcycle... Naturally a 45. Painted like a Malt Liquor Can....

Allright, enough hatin' and sarcasm on my part.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[AFJ]

AFJ: I would not waste your time... I think the consensus is that Win****er motorcycles are fantasy pieces... at least as far as a relationship to the gun company goes.

On that note, maybe I should find a nice old Harley, paint Smith and Wesson down the side and come up with a story about how Daniel Wesson contracted to have 200 bikes made... and I could do a kids book and retire on the proceeds... And then there's the Colt motorcycle... Naturally a 45. Painted like a Malt Liquor Can....

Allright, enough hatin' and sarcasm on my part.

Cheers,

Sirhr

Sirhr,
From "Antique Motorcycles" (now The Antique Motorcycle) Vol.4, #2 (Summer, 1964) page 1. is the attached picture which appears to be the motorcycle being hawked about as a "W--------R". I have not copied the information attached to the picture in the the original document but will say that it is being sold by a well known motorcycle company but not badged under that name.
AFJ

[rwm]

The bike is a pink unicorn! Any auctioneer that runs it across his block needs to have his license pulled for fraud.

[exeric]

I wonder what the highest legitimate bid has been on either of those "Winchesters". If he got anything near $50K, he should have jumped on it.

[BigLakeBob]

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...ed/?refer=news

[Scooter Guy]

Wow. That's a pretty unbelievable (no pun intended) turn of events that the red one (apparently a 1909) would end up stolen along with the Harley.

My guess is that it was Ray Gibson's collection that got hit. He is in Turlock, CA, is a known collector and had his name all over all sorts of publicity materials back when the OTHER Winchester (the blue one) was loaned to the Buffalo Bill Center in Cody, WY - he owned that bike at the time (still does???). It would just be too much of a coincidence if someone else in Turlock also owned a Winchester motorcycle, so I'd guess it was his place that got targeted.

[exeric]

So, there are 2 Winchesters in existence, with no detailed, verifiable history, or provenance and neither have been successfully sold, and now one has been stolen. I'll stop short of speculating any further