I need help about this Excelsior Super X

[RichO]

Sweet!!!!!

[ryan]

I agree, sweet!

[26fhead]

I believe my bike is a 1928 as my engine # is a mid 5000 and it also starts with an L which denotes low frame, but I am not an expert. Here is a pic of my front brake and bike wrong bars as the crossbar hits the dash when on the bike.

SteveDSC02505.jpgDSC02506.jpgDSC02507.jpg

[RichO]

L doesn't mean low frame model ( I never seen documentation of this) which yours isn't because it doesn't have the bar below the tank needing the drop down carb to intake manifold adapter even though I can't see the other side of the tank I bet it doesn't have the cut outs to clear the intake valve tops. Those look like the correct touring bars but I can't see by the photo way they won't clear the dash. They also offered the baby boy racer bars that were like board track bars that were really uncomfortable. Nice 1928 model. Only early 1929 before the Streamline model were low frame units. They didn't have clinchers which yours does.

[26fhead]

DrSprocket here's a better picture.SteveDSC02509.jpgDSC02510.jpg

[26fhead]

Here's the bars hitting the dash.DSC02511.jpgDSC02512.jpgDSC02513.jpg

[RichO]

Yes! Yours is a true early 1929 low frame model. It has the adapter for the carb, the tank pockets, the whole MaryAnn. So very cool. Even though it must be a really early 1929 to have clinchers on it just like I've seen early mid year Streamliners with the small barrels. They used up what was on the shelve. The bars in the one photo shows some raw brazing where the bar joins the triple tree. I wonder if they were damaged and repositioned to low? Easy to raise just a little. It would take much. Great machine. They handle and run just as well as the Scout 101. I had both at the same time and they were really equal.

[26fhead]

If the Ballak list is correct my bike is a 1928 as its # is 5400 and some change and does run and handle great!

Steve

[RichO]

Steve and Raposo, Let me back up a few feet as I thought about this heavily last night. When I started messing around with the orphan Super X I was 35 and I'm now watching 72 approach. I've forgot more than I once knew. When I began my mentors were Dewey Bonkrud, Dean Salsman, and Carl Vandre. There were very few Super's around. Most were rough baskets, a couple of complete original machines, and only a couple of runners. You could find frames, motors (trans attach of course), a tank here and there and a fork or two. Good fenders, brake parts, handle bars etc. were hard to find. Dashs, chain guards, battery/tool boxes, foot boards were rare. Chuck Lipsky made the boxes, footboards, and chain guards plus grips and footboard rubbers. That was it. Dean got about a third of the Triangle stuff so linkage ends, and small parts could be had. Dean poured over the couple of parts books and the riders book and came up with the early 1929 low frame dogma. I built two low frame models and Carl had one. One of mine was a Sport model. Carl and I rode ours a lot. You'll go a long ways to see one on the road today or at a meet. They seem to be coming out of the woodwork as time goes by. To see your two on the forum is special. I now believe the low frame model from the numbers I've seen lately were 1928 and early 1929. 1925 and 1926 you hardly ever see with no valanced front fenders, extra springs on the front fork and low mount battery/tool box. 1927 without a front brake is rare. Lot's of 1928 though. They moved the boxes up in 1927 to clear the then required large round can muffler with the cut out and the small pipe down the left side. You hardly ever see one. They went back to the straight pipe in mds-'29. Streamliner rarer to two years really, mid-'29 to mid-'31. We never found paper work about why the low framed model was built. I passed all my notes, articles, and ton's of photos to Matt Olsen after he work with Carl for a year learning the Schwinn ropes so to speak. I did have an article from about 1930 that was about a trip a guy took across the states on his Streamliner. Also a late '20's article that was a road test and told about the optional paint choice for a extra five dollars. The European models got the extra internal brake which helps stopping power. A lot were exported to Germany. All I really know is to put a drop of oil in the hole in your magneto and lube your rocker arms and oil the felts on top of you intake valve guide every 200 miles or so. Enjoy!

[RichO]

Steve and Raposo, After walking the dog a I remembered a few other random things. The steering is quick because of the lack of neck rake and makes it's handling rather nimble. The streamliner's magdyno was a weak spot as the mag worked well but the generator part spun like 1 to 1 and they failed. The D-5's and D-7's on the flat tankers ran of the clutch drum if I remember correctly so they spun slower and worked well. Pinion gears were the weak link on all models and hard to find replacements as the key way was close to the root of the outside gear teeth and would crack. When building a basket case it was easy to mix a pocket tank with a standard frame and a non-pocketed tank with a low model frame. I think the rarity of front brake shoes and backing plates was because riders weren't used to them when they first came out in 1928 so they got tossed but the drum remained laced in the wheel. I built a bob job from left overs from a streamliner and 1928 regulr tank model I built and I called it "Scrapes" which I drag race at the local bike drags one time. It had aluminum tanks on an early frame. Because it's a crash box transmission you couldn't speed shift but three passes were all the same, 20 seconds at 60 mph. and it was really coming on through the traps when it would run out of real estate. no bad when Triumphs and such with 40 hp were only running 90 mph and change in the mid 15's. Last I remember pulling 8k to 10k mountains in the Sierra's with a middle tooth counter shaft gear in high with 250lb's in the saddle (back then) with just a little retard and a little of the stop on the throttle till just near the top having to drop a gear tough little machines. I'm done but thanks for the old memories.

[exeric]

Fantastic information, and recollections, Rich. I've love Excelsiors, and Hendersons, and because of that, people think I know a lot about the Super X. I don't know anything about the Super X as they were such a different animal from the Big X, and Henderson. I have to believe they were a rare bird, even in their own day and I also have to wonder why Schwinn committed so much of his resources to develop, and produce the Super X. I recall seeing 3 Super X Streamliner projects for sale at a late 1970s Florida AMCA meet and I recall that $5K was the asking price for all of them. Ignorance of the Super X, space limitations, and money limitations were the deciding factors in that fantasy I also recall someone saying the bikes had come out of Germany and you could see some of that Euro content used to keep them on the road. I really enjoyed your observations, and first hand, (hands on) knowledge of the Super X's you had, Rich. Those accounts are golden in this hobby.

[RichO]

Eric, I learned about them the same way any one does with orphans. Just dig in and get to it. You mentioned Big X's. Did you mean the 1920 to 1924 models? Those are a rare beast also. You see very few. In 1924 a few 74" or so were built as the rest were 61" if I recall correctly. Great machines. The overhead valve hillclimbers from the factory were 40 horse brutes. Harley and Indian couldn't touch them. They made about 25 and I've seen about a dozen survivors. Awesome! I know you sold your one bike recently we all go there at one time or another. A fact of life. It sure was a beauty. Nice work. On another note I wouldn't take a gasket from HIM if he made it out of GOLD. Enough said. Regards.

[exeric]

Eric, I learned about them the same way any one does with orphans. Just dig in and get to it.

That is such a true statement, Rich. I have talked to people who have odd, rare bikes and they wonder how they are going to find information, parts, and support for that bike. Like you said, if they are serious, they will find the information and dig in. I think of Herbert Wagner, and his amazing pursuit of early Harley-Davidson information; and you know that wasn't handed to him. He dug in, and spent his own money, time, and resources to research the most infinitesimal facts from libraries, newspaper files, and historical societies. That's also what PEM, yourself, and Bob Turek did in their pursuit of the motorcycles they love. That is where the best part of this fantastic hobby lies, and also where the most satisfaction comes from. Life is all about learning something new (that was old).

[LouieMCman]

I'm fairly new to the Super X's...comments on this basket from the experts please...

[LouieMCman]

More pics..I know its a low frame with carb adapter, wrong tank, but enough to build a bobber..