I need help about this Excelsior Super X

[Raposo]

I'm working on the restoration of this Excelsior Super X and I have doubts ..., the engine number is 4159 (year 1926?), but that year did not have that fork with springs.
Could someone identify this bike exactly?
I need help to know which elements are original and which are not.
On the other hand, I need: handlebar, front wheel hub, dynamo (generator) , battery box, control panel.
Thanks for your help. IMG_20190207_155840.jpgIMG_20190207_155830.jpgIMG_20190207_131111.jpg

[Steve Slocombe]

The front brake was not fitted to the Super-X until 1928, and looks smaller in the sales brochures than the one in your bike. You are automatically a member of the European Chapter at no cost if you send me your Email address. We have technical authors and restorers in Germany who can help with Excelsior. Quite a few Super-X bikes came to Scandinavia and Germany and there are still survivors and enthusiasts.

[Raposo]

Hi Steve, I sent you a PM

[RichO]

The motor numbers seem to indicate this is a 1928 or early 1929 motor. I had a 1928 with 4000 numbers. My friend had an early 1929 with 4000 numbers. This has the pocketed early 1929 tank and low frame that needs the dropped intake manifold to clear the frame bar below the gas tank. The fork is correct and the front fender with side valances is correct too. Super X didn't have valances on the front fork till !927. The rims for an early 1929 should be 19" and they should be drop centers with the reverse rolled outer lip like the KJ Hendersons, etc. Looking closer I see it might be the proper front brake but it needs to be flipped to the left side. The back fork leg is missing the brake anchor lug easy to fab. Chain guard and battery/tool box are easy to fab too. Thomas Bund in Germany is a gold mine for Super X information on your side of the Atlantic. He has several. In mid-year 1929 the Streamline model came out with the aluminum tanks and used the same dropped center wheels only in the 18' size. I hope this helps.

[Raposo]

Hello and thanks for your help, I will try to get in touch with Thomas Bund.

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Rich, my 29KJ has 19" drop centre rims which I believe are original. Interesting that Henderson beat Harley and Indian by a year to this feature, and maybe the front brake too.

[bobbyt]

The serial number is in the range for 1926. Ballak lists the range as 3000 to 4500. While there are some issues with his ranges for the teens, those for the twenties seem to be good. I can't tell clearly from the pictures, but it looks like the frame might be 1928 or later. The Super X motor, being unit construction, was fairly easy to swap out. That probably happened fairly often in the thirties as folks tired to keep they machines on the road.

Bob Turek
#769

[RichO]

Since only about 10,000 101 Scouts approx. were built and it's estimated the same for Super X's if you do the math Ballak's numbers don't add up. In the real world I've seen this to be true having owned and worked on quite a few of them. 1925 to 1930 (with mid-31 they were done. Highest numbers I've seen were in the 7 range. So seven divided by five will get you close. About 1.4 a year or about 4.2 to start 1928. I know it varied I'm sure but it's a good ballpark figure to start with. 10,000 machines would put you close to Ballak at 4 for 1926 if you can find an X with higher than a 7 on it's number block. I've never seen one but I haven't seen everything yet. A early 1929 low frame, pocketed tank, 19" model is a rare bird. I've only seen a hand full of real ones. Just as a true 1928 up Sport Model Super X is rare. A real special factory "Hot Rod ' motor to be sure. They make a regular X look weak .

[bobbyt]

Not to belabor this, but I stand by my assessment of the Ballak ranges. Over the years I’ve gather a lot of serial numbers for Excelsiors and Hendersons. These map fairly closely to the Ballak ranges for most years. There is a thorough discussion of serial numbers in the American Excelsior Supplement which was published last year. We discuss the Ballak ranges and the issues with them there.

On the production numbers, the book Thomas Bund and I published earlier, American Excelsior, contains what are the most reliable numbers available. These are based on documents in the Schwinn Collection of the AMA, among other sources. Unfortunately, the lists the factory kept of individual machines by serial number with the details do not seem to have come down to today.

Bob Turek

[RichO]

There's too much on this machine that is later than a 1926 model. I have personally seen to many post '26 models with 4000 numbers. That's real world. The AMA collection came from the Schwinn auction in the 90's after the company filed bankruptcy. I was blessed to visit the factory on Cortland Street just before they tore it down in the early 90's and the whole Schwinn archives down town in the old brick Arnold and Schwinn original bike factory building. Viewing the factory Super X blue prints and much more that hadn't been opened since 1947. One might argue that the cases are earlier but I don't see the early crankcase breather on the left side and believe it is over on the right side where it was moved later. The line on the left that is not run up to the hand pump is all I see. It is what it is and would be harder to build as a 1926 when it's a very good start at a 1929 early model which I truly believe it basically is.

[Raposo]

Hello everyone, and thanks for your help!!
Then it can be a motor of 1926 in a frame of 1928 ?, it can be a motorcycle "Frankenstein"?
I attach more photos to help identify better ...
I want to start working on this bike but I must be sure of what I'm going to do. IMG_20190207_131057.jpgIMG_20190207_131051.jpgIMG_20190207_130922.jpgIMG_20190207_130748.jpgIMG_20190207_130503.jpg

[RichO]

In photo #4 you see the crankcase vent tube behind the front exhaust tube next to the front cylinder that didn't happen till early 1929 which is what the chassis and tinwork bear out. I see by the pipe plug on that side next to it that they did away with the compression release lever activated by the kick starter that really isn't needed as these start really easy. To show what paperwork doesn't I studied a great original paint 2nd owner mid-year 1929 Super X that came with the small early cylinders from the gactory when everyone assumes the later big finned tapered cylinders were standard with the streamliner model. Just like all the changes through the production run of the 1936 HD El's or the first, second, and third variations of the 1912 Excelsior (first year under Schwinn) doesn't show up in the paperwork. I'd build it as a early 1929 low frame model as that really appears to be what it is. I'm done.

[Raposo]

Thanks for your explanation.
I would like to know how the compression release system works, I imagine something similar to the Indian Scout, right? "

[RichO]

I can't remember the one on my 101 Scout as it was a 1930 but the 1928 and 1929 went through the tank. They changed in 1930. The Super X had a lever that operated the valve above the cam chest, between the cylinder bases, with a rod to a dog by the kicker gear that opened it Both were a while ago and the memory chips have faded some.

[Raposo]

Just yesterday the engine of the Excelsior returned to sound ...