Save Our Judging

[pete reeves]

Wayne.
Allowing the owners on the judging field has benefited both the owners and judges there are no plans to change this.
Pete Reeves 860

[felthamw]

Wheewwwwwww.......
I'm good with that! How the heck do we learn if we can't be interactive?
See ya at the "Southern"..........
soon, very soon!
I'm ready!
Wayne #4329

[Edd]

What is time for is to let the AMCA members vote on who runs our club. That would include president, VP, Chief Judge and all other positions. If this was the way the positions were filled this type of removal of the chief judge and assistant would and could not have happened. When this happens we will again have a good club. We may even get a DETAILED accounting of where all our funds are spent.

[Robin-M]

Dear Robin, it was nice to say hello to you at Oley, and I'll be at Denton if you want to talk some more. Perhaps I can say a few words about my take on judging developments, as you have again mentioned my name in your posting.

First the Judging Committee is the same one you and Kevin worked with, with the addition of me. All the important issues go to a vote, and I'm just one among ten.

Likewise, you'll see when the minutes are published that most of the Board decisions on judging at Eustis went through with a 9-1 majority. The Board does not want to see any more bikes with bad numbers get AMCA judging awards, nor bikes made up mostly of replica parts. This may be why the Club has now had to protect itself from lawsuits with the new judging disclaimer.

The 'inexperienced' judges you are complaining about are the same ones you worked with before. The new Chief Judge has given credit to you and Kevin for training him, and said he plans to spend more time backing up the Field Judges and managing the administration, and I'm OK with this.

So you need to acknowledge you are unlikely to be reinstated, and you haven't shown up for work at the last two National Meets. The placards, Tee shirts, and protests through shills are unbecoming to someone of your skills and knowledge. How about writing down your knowledge on Indians, Japanese, and as-raced competition bikes so that other Club members can benefit from it? It's not about you and me, but about the Club membership and having fun with old bikes. We need to move on and together support the new AMCA judging system. Best regards.

Steve:

Yes, I remember seeing you at Oley and saying hello to you. I try to always greet people instead of snubbing them like our new apprentice chief judge did to me in Daytona quite a few times throughout bike week. I just wasn't brought up that way.

To clarify the judging committee, I'm not sure which committee you're speaking of. The original judging committee that was started years ago was never disbanded. We didn't have that many formal meetings in the last year or so because everything was running fairly smoothly. But quite often if we had questions or needed others' opinions on additions or changes we always contacted as many members as possible, usually at a meet, there always has been quite a few of them present at the meets. Sometimes we used phone conversations. Or are you talking about the unapproved committee that you started in October, without Kevin's knowledge and with Kevin being out of town. I tried to stop you several times until Kevin came back to town and you wouldn't stop. So I contacted Rocky several times, using proper procedures to stop you, since you did not listen to or respect the Assistant Chief Judge's authority asking you to stop your committee. So even then you had no respect for the Chief Judge and the Assistant Chief Judge. Kevin and I did try to work with this committee. There are a lot of good people with a lot of good knowledge on this committee. So, I still don't know what you mean about the same committee with the addition of you, it doesn't make any sense. You say you're only one vote in ten, but you're on the board of directors, RedFred is on the board of directors and instead of Rocky stopping the committee, he took over the committee, made it a legal committee and chaired the committee. That to me three board votes against Kevin's one, just on the committee. At least one of the votes that the committee voted on before Eustis, that you did not agree with, you and RedFred used your board positions to sway the board to change the vote.

At our judging committee meeting held at Eustis, we all agreed on the bad number jobs that Rocky presented us with. I don't feel bad numbers should be allowed either, I am not against having a rule against bad numbers, it just nees to be clarified. I do not agree with your overall view, with one blanket rule for all machines and all numbers, especially without enough documentation, it is not correct and the loose use of the words bad numbers is not completely and fairly defined.

You mention the disclaimer. Yes you're right, I do not like the disclaimer or agree with it, as I told you in Eustis, that most of our members wouldn't agree with it either. It is written too intimidating. And the fact that the best and the most stringent motorcycle juding in the world is not being termed worthless. The disclaimer is also in total contradiction to our club flyers. Our flyers say that one of the benefits of being an AMCA member is having your bike judged and increasing it's value. The disclaimer is not only terming our bikes worthless, it's also saying that our judges aren't good enough to judge them correctly.

Yes, I'm sure the minutes are going to show that the board voted the judging committee's rules into effect. I guess speaking of the board that votes itself in to office and the same board members which most don't know anything about the judging or care anything about the judging. A lot of these are still the ones that used to sit in board meetings for hours and hours and hours hearing complaining from members about the previous judging administration under Peter Heinz. Also how little of this they heard and had to deal with when the system was running smooth under Kevin and I. Rocky himself had told me many times that he hated the judging and he didn't even see why we needed it. I think it's funny that the first two times that I've seen him on the judging field were Eustis and Oley. And he has never handed out our prestigious awards like all the previous presidents have done.

The inexperienced judges I'm complaining about are NOT our field judges, national deputies or our senior judges. The inexperienced judges I'm referring to is the one at the top, our new apprentice chief judge, although most of our judges are inexperienced compared to my 35 years of experience in judging motorcycles for our membeship and our club, along with several other motorcycle clubs. The person currently holding the position of chief judge has NEVER judged a motorcycle at an AMCA national meet as a field judge, he has only helped as an apprentice on 57 motorcycles at 10 meets since 2008. I know this because Kevin and I handed him his judges card at the awards ceremony after the judging at Davenport. I thank him for giving me credit in training him, I had no idea I was that good of a teacher, to actually train someone in less than 2 years to surpass me and attain the position that I've been striving for all my life. And the position Rocky promised to me in writing in November. You mention that he plans to spend more time backing up the Field Judges and managing the administration, and you're OK with this, so, it's ok with you that he has virtually no judging background but is holding the position of chief judge. AND BEFORE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE TRIES TO SAY THAT THE CHIEF JUDGE'S JOB IS AN ADMINISTRATIVE POSITION AND NOT A JUDGES POSITION, let's look back to when that started, it started with Peter Heinz. We had many more years of this club having a Chief Judge that WAS a judge than we did having a Chief Judge that was an administrator. The name Chief Judge means Chief Judge, not chief administrator.

You said I need to realize I'm unlikely to be reinstated, is this your opinion, the president's opinion, the board's opinion or who's. I know it's not the opinion of the hundreds of members and judges that have spoken with me. And it surely can't be my experience, knowledge, honesty and all my years of dedication to our members to make their bikes more correct and more enjoyable and to also make them run the way they were intended to.

You said I haven't shown up for work at two national meets. How can you be so arrogant as to make this statement. I took you for having more credibility than this. I was in the lobby when Rocky blew up and fired Kevin after the board meeting. I witnessed Rocky screaming and hollering and swearing and dancing around like a prize fighter wanting to fight Kevin, so, my boss was fired. I went to the meet Saturday morning, it was a cold miserable rainy day, I stayed in my booth all day, and talked to the few people that were mingling around that day. NO ONE FROM THE BOARD, NOT THE PRESIDENT, YOURSELF, OR ANY OTHER BOARD MEMBER had the courtesy or common decency to let me know if I still had a job. No one. So I figured I didn't have a job either. So I didn't show up for work because I didn't think I had a job. Oley is different. I do not agree with who the chief judge is, I do not agree with your overall power of the board and the judging system and I do not feel comfortable with a lot of these new non-historically correct rules and I'm not going to be the one shoving them down our members throats when I don't agree with them. I hate to keep bringing up my years of experience, but Kevin and I did keep fairly good records of the judging system. Since 1992 I've judged at 126 meets and 1358 motorcycles, that's only since 1992, we didn't keep records before that, so that doesn't include from the 70's up till 1992. Since 1998 you've judged at 39 meets and 159 motorcycles.

(MORE TO COME, EACH POST IS LIMITED TO 10,000 CHARACTERS)

[Robin-M]

As far as the placards, there was only one sign that I made up and put on my father's racer explaining my disagreement of the changing of the way w judge competition machines. We judged them by the rules that they were allowed to be raced with in their time period, which I explained in detail to the new judging committee. The majority of the committee kept saying they didn't understand. Here in the United States, it's still freedom of speech.

As far as the t-shirts, these were Biketoberfest 2001 t-shirts, featuring our use of motorcycles by our military during WWII wth American flags. The slogan said "Paybacks are a bitch", talking about the bombing of the trade center in NYC.

You said, protests through shills are unbecoming to someone of my skills and knowledge. I think it's very unbecoming on your part to even think I had to ask people to talk to you and the new apprentice chief judge. You don't give our membership and judges enough credit. You can ask quite a few people that were in Eustis, I said the members and the judges will not tolerate a lot of these bogus rules, a disclaimer telling them their bike is worthless and the controlling judging staff with no regard for our members, some being self-appointed, some wrongly appointed by our president that never cared for the judging system. Remember, I came up through the ranks, I earned my position.

Yes, I would like to write books, so my years of expertise and collected knowledge can be preserved for future generations. Yes, I would like to write books and charge people for them like you do. But I haven't had time to compose these books, with working on motoryclces every day for a living, answering the phone calls, letters and emails, going to motorcycle events (and answering more questions there throughout the meet), plus on the judging field and even after the judging is over. I have always been the last one off the judging field answering the people's questions, helping the members and sharing my knowledge as much as possible for free. Maybe that's why I'm not wealthy, but I have a lot of friends all over the world, who show me respect. Unlike the way you treated me in the board room when I was granted by ten minutes to speak at the board meeting. Every other board member except you moved their chairs so they could face me while I spoke in the front of the room. You faced the wall 90 degrees from me and stayed in that position looking down at the table or your paperwork in front of you or at the wall, with no sign of respect for me at all, not even one glance in my direction.

It seems to me that a lot of this is about you and me. From what I see, you seem to be running the whole AMCA almost single handedly, you're a part of everything that's going on. I guess I'm not part of your plan. What I should do is charge you for the time that you've made me waste defending my integrity and years of dedication that I've given to our AMCA members and our club. Instead of being able to use my time productively helping our members through my knowledge and judging abilities to continue to improve the best motorcycle judging the world has ever known and not letting it be destroyed by wankers.

Your post was so wrong on so many points. You just don't get it.

I'm also not the one that started the petition about open elections for the AMCA starting in 2011. Many of members that weren't at Oley might not have heard about the petition. If you belong to a chapter, check with your chapter president, they will be receiving one in the mail.

So before you try to put blame on me, think back to October when you started the unauthorized judging committee.

Robin Markey
Former Assistant Chief Judge

[Carl Olsen]

Robin,
The simple facts are that Kevin quit during the Eustis meeting and you chose not to retain your status as assistant chief judge and quit also. The AMCA is not about quitters, it is about people working together to enjoy this great hobby of antique motorcycles. Let it go or get with the program! Once again I would like to state that these are my thoughts and have nothing to do with my son's or the AMCA board.

[Robin-M]

Carl,

It's a shame you weren't in the lobby of the hotel like I was. Kevin walked out of the board meeting, he did not quite the AMCA or the position of Chief Judge. I was in the lobby discussing the disclaimer with Richard Spagnolli, board member, approximately 15 feet from Rocky and Kevin and heard with my own ears Rocky firing Kevin. You were also not in my trailer Sunday when I was given the ultimatum by Rocky and also given till the end of bike week to give him my answer. You were also not with me during bike week to see me being snubbed by the new chief judge, the person Rocky wanted me to work under in his ultimatum. So after a week's worth of being snubbed, I stopped at Rocky's trailer on Saturday, which you weren't there in Rocky's trailer either, that's when I gave Rocky my ultimatum which was make me Chief Judge like you said you would in your email to me in November, or fire me. Seems pretty plain to me. Then Sunday as I was driving home from Daytona, when Steve Dawdy called me on my cell phone, you weren't there to hear that phone call either. Steve Dawdy told me on the phone that he was TOLD not to talk to me during bike week, I asked him who told him and he wouldn't say. He also said he would have to take me off the judging committee, even though he did say that I'm still a judge.

There again, I can't even believe that you would call me a quitter. How many years of your life have you devoted to the AMCA and our members?

These are not only my thoughts, these are facts. Maybe you should get your facts straight.

Robin Markey
Former Assistant Chief Judge

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Robin, I still hear a lot of anger there, as well as a lot of repetition. Let me just say in response that I don't do things that are illegal, and you over-estimate my influence on the Board and the Judging Committee.

Why not leave it a couple of weeks until Denton, and see if we can find a find a way to continue to use your knowledge for the benefit of our Club, its members, and their motorcycles? Best regards.

[Chris Haynes]

Steve,
Robin is not the only person you are hearing anger from. If I was you I would keep a low profile and remain quiet.

[exeric]

Steve,
Robin is not the only person you are hearing anger from. If I was you I would keep a low profile and remain quiet.

Is this the Antique Motorcycle Club of Iran ?

[kval]

Steve Slocombe
I have remained silent during all this garbage, but now it is time as you have again mentioned my name in your posting.
“Perhaps I can say a few words about my take on judging developments, as you have again mentioned my name in your posting.”

“First the Judging Committee is the same one you and Kevin worked with, with the addition of me. All the important issues go to a vote, and I'm just one among ten.”
The judging committee Robin and I worked with is not the one you are talking about.The one you refer to is the one you started in October without presidential or board approval and when the president took this new committee over in November you hand picked at least 5 of the members. I received an email from the president stating “join in or I will replace you” this was followed up with an email to Robin stating “if Kevin does not join in you will be the first one I come to”

"The placards, Tee shirts, and protests through shills are unbecoming to someone of your skills and knowledge."
The Tee shirts that seem to bother you so much, are a tribute to 911, there are many Americans still upset about that attack on our soil. I for one will continue to wear and display items to remember this.
As for protests through shills, neither Robin nor I have asked any member to
A: not have their bike judged
B: not to help with judging
C: talk to board members about their displeasure about these latest events.

The membership is just plain tired of all this and that is why one member started the petition asking for open elections of the board. Many members stated to me “none of this would have happened if we had open elections”

[INLINE4NUT]

THANK YOU Robin for setting the RECORD STRAIGHT ! I for one will sign the petition !

[Tommo]

Guys,
I sit here half a world away and just agonise as to how all this can happen in this day and age especially when the club is based in a country that was founded on democracy and the democratic right of the individual.
As this sorry saga unfolds it becomes more and more obvious that this club is run as a dictatorship by a section of those in control and that those people in control are saying that things will be run as they dictate and not by a democratic vote of the whole membership.
The eviction of people from the board only goes to prove that the club is being run by an "old boys network" and if you beg to differ with that network they'll just throw you out and invite someone sympathic to their cause to replace those thrown off.
Surely there is some form of legal avenue that the general membership can take to try and remedy this situation as I just can't see how the board has the right to hold the membership to ransom and that the membership has no right of reply.
Do the laws of the USA really allow this type of thing to happen?
Surely the among the general membership there is a lawyer that can at least outline the situation to the members and maybe suggest a way forward that will resolve this issue.
If some progress towards middle ground is not achieved soon I can see this issue tearing the club apart.
It's not just about judging, it's also about democracy, the right of the general member to know how his money is being spent, the reluctance of the board to make full and frank releases via this forum and the attitude of the board towards the general membership.
If the board is not prepared to make a full and frank statement, press release or call it what you like, here on the forum to explain the situation it only makes you wonder what they are trying to hide.
If, in my above asumptions, I'm wrong I really welcome especially Rocky Halter but if necessary a member of the board to reply and prove to us all where I'm wrong.

[Paps]

The only points you have directly wrong is the type of governing we are set up as in this United States. Progressive communists and maxrists, be they democrat or republican in party, push the notion we are a democratic society. In all truth, we are a Republic. Republic is a representative form of governing which resembles a democracy. A democracy leads to communism or marxism. I won't go into how much of our beloved Nation is now in control of these progressives. I just wanted to point out your slight error. Paps

[joestuff]

The only points you have directly wrong is the type of governing we are set up as in this United States. Progressive communists and maxrists, be they democrat or republican in party, push the notion we are a democratic society. In all truth, we are a Republic. Republic is a representative form of governing which resembles a democracy. A democracy leads to communism or marxism. I won't go into how much of our beloved Nation is now in control of these progressives. I just wanted to point out your slight error. Paps

Paps, I digress, but I will comment. Democracy is the art of living on a slippery slope, and only leads in a particular direction when moderates stop fighting the extremes. Our system has been subverted by party(BOTH) and cooperate interests because WE let it. In a Democracy, it's OUR fault. At present I have no comment on how this statement is related to the AMCA.