Save Our Judging

[2wheels]

I’ve stayed pretty quiet in the past, but now I feel I have to speak up.

Is the AMCA phasing out the judging? What’s up? The real guys are out (Kevin and Robin) and some yahoos are in. Is our board crazy? I heard Rocky (our president) and an English guy are to blame. I also heard several guys wanted to beat up Rocky for doing it and another guy told Rocky he was nuts for kicking out Kevin and Robin and that Rocky started screaming and yelling and going nuts.

Some of the guys that have been putting bikes in the judging for years weren’t going to put them in, they said there’s no good judges to judge them anyway, why put them in. The good judges and marke experts are so important to our club, if we don’t have their expertise, where are we all going to be. But, you know, I think these guys were loyal to Robin and Kevin. They don’t want to judge under these new guys that don’t know anything. I never even heard of this new guy they have in charge, but he reminds me of the teacher on Southpark, the one with the hand puppet. And it looks like he forgot the vests.

What can we do to get Robin and Kevin back before our judging is a laughing stock, or is it too late? Kevin, Robin, if you’re listening, I for one really miss you on the judging field. You guys made it real and you made it real fun.

[INLINE4NUT]

I think alot of people have been feedup for some time now putting all the Blame on Rocky is not right ! There is alot going on and we have some good people in the club,things will straighten out ,when ?well thats another story !!

[Robin-M]

It's not too late to save the judging and it's not too late to save the club. The way Kevin and I were kicked out of our positions in Florida, was handled totally wrong. Rocky, the person holding the office of president of our club, has the power to appoint and fire the Chief Judge and Assistant Chief Judge. So, yes, it is Rocky's fault. However, he was persueded by Steve Slocombe, the english person you mention, who is on ouir board of directors. Steve is rewritting everything that the AMCA stands for, bylaws, policies and procedures, judging handbook, judging rules and he's on the steering committee. Rocky has the power to change the Chief judge and Assistant Chief Judge at any time, he could even change it back to Kevin and I, today, if he wanted to.

If any of the people reading this have ever been to the Oley judging, there has never been as few bikes and judges as there was this year. I counted 6 possible judges and 6 possible apprentices. In the heart of Indian country, and this was one meet that always had a lot of Indians, there was one Indian Chief and one 70's Indian mini-bike. Although the bike that got the distance trophy was an Indian and it was on the field for display.

Two of the winners circle bikes, with over 40 winners circle plaques they received from maintaining their bikes in the winners circle, refused to enter them in the judging under the new "Apprentice Chief Judge" (he was an apprentice till last year at Davenport). They also didn't want to sign the new Disclaimer Form that is required, stating that our judging is not to be used to increase the value of our motorcycles. Which is a benefit of the AMCA judging, when it was previosly run by experienced people. But, the brand new AMCA flyers that were handed out to promote our club, has a line stating that one of the benefits of having your bike judged is that will increase the value of your motorcycle. Hopefully they'll use the flyers and won't waste all that was printed. But, they're in direct contradiction to each other.

As far as the vests, they didn't forget them, they decided (after they made the Perkiomen Chapter purchase new vests) that they weren't going to use vests. They used hats and armbands, which didn't distinguish them from everyone else under the pavillion. It seems like every aspect that was working before, they must change. And they want to change everything to make it look like everything is a total change to our judging, an "old versus new" attitude. They're not finished with their changes, there's many more to come.

You're right about the loyalty we had from our judges. They didn't show up to judge and we never told them not to. I also noticed one or two of the thier small group of judges were people that we didn't give a judging card to because they were not knowledgable enough. It's going to be interesting.

Think of all the judging forms that will be incorrect with judges judging that don't know enough about the bikes.

I guess the best thing you can do if you're upset with the way things are being run is to write a letter to the Magazine Editor and you can send one to the AMCA secretary and she will send it out to the entire board if you ask her to.

Robin Markey

[Sargehere]

The more things change, the more they stay the same. This judging change isn't the end of the Antique Motorcycle Club. The people presently in charge are no less dedicated than past holders of the position. I've been here since 1972; the club BOD has always been one part long black judicial robes, and one part Buster Keaton Keystone Kops Comedy. Just people, like all of us.

Poster 1 reveals his recent enlistment. I knew "real guys," too. Changes started from the old "Best Restored #1," "Best Restored #2" back under Past President, then Chief Judge Doc Patt in the 1970s. The progression was orderly, to then-almost unknown Peter Heinz, who did the most to modernize the system along AACA lines, to Kevin, who fine-tuned it, and Robin, who gave 35 years of his life to the club, and got screwed, if he could have been expected to follow the progression. That's history.

Thing that bothered me was the familiarity and "yeah, okay," that settled in. Bikes weren't even shown to run to be judged for years, that I saw. We needed a shake up. The new guys will do the job just fine. Leave the politics and look ahead, not back. It wasn't all that great as nostalgia makes it seem.

[Robin-M]

Sarge, that all sounds good, I like the history part of it. Sounds like we're going to rewrite history like we're doing in the rest of the world. Remember the motorcycles we're judging are part of history. I can't put a face with your name, but I really don't remember you on the judging field recently. So a lot of things have changed if you haven't been involved. We both have opinions like everyone else. You know what they always say about opinions. You said it, I can back mine up with my years of experience. Like I said many times before, I challange anyone on knowledge and common sense when it comes to our judging. As I said before, I was not ready to be wrongly replaced and snubbed by the new regime in Florida. My opinion.

Sounds like being out of the loop, you don't fully understand all of what's going on. You mention starting the bikes before judging. It's up to each chapter judge to appoint someone to make sure the bikes run. For years the Perkiomen chapter did that as they were coming onto the field and gave them a dot for their headlight. Some of the other chapters did it in other ways. This was done while Kevin and I were running the judges meeting. If everybody does their job, everything works great.

This year my wife and I were going to go to EVERY AMCA meet possible(at our expense), including Den Haag, and run a judging seminar to bring judges up to speed all around the world. I say every meet possible because our board still insists on running two meets on the same weekend several times a year, so of course I couldn't be at both on one weekend. I saw a need, not just for the administrative part of our judging, but for the knowledge part and I need to share my knowledge with as many of our members as possible. There's a reason Doc Patt wanted me to take over the judging after him, he knew my potential. I turned it down because I didn't think I was qualified. Over the years I have learned just how qualified I am. I'm not just tooting my own horn, I'm going by the tons of people that have told me so.

So I guess they just want to hide me under a bush.

Robin Markey

[2wheels]

Robin, I wish I had your motorcycle knowledge, you can share some with me anytime. I don't know why they want to hide you under a bush. Sure doesn't seem right. Some people in your situation would just walk away, I'm glad you're still trying to make it right. Good luck.

[exeric]

Gerry Lyons is right though. The AMCA will survive and we'll all move on. It's hard to say goodbye to the past but sometime a new set of eyes can bring a welcome change.

[INLINE4NUT]

ROBIN It is the Clubs loss for sure but they can not take away your knowledge or savey,The Club will continue but you should not stay away from any meet you choose to go to !!Hang in there and I do hope to see you this summer or fall at one of the meets!!!Lesser men can not bring down whats right !

[2wheels]

Hey Eric, We've had enough "change" in this country. A new set of eyes might be alright as long as the person isn't sitting on them. I feel those eyes need to be connected to a head that contains a brain that knows how to judge motorcycle. The AMCA might survive, but the once-top-of-the-line judging won't. You and Gerry just don't seem to get it. A lot of people don't, but they will. I just feel that it's a sad day to see knowledgable people thrown out like they did to Robin.

I thought the antique motorcycle club was about preserving motorcycles from the past. So why would you get rid of knowledgable people on these machines. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Chris Haynes]

It sounds like it may be time to resurrect the old Classic and Antique Motorcycle Association. CAMA.

[exeric]

2wheels; I've had 5 bikes judged and I have been an assistant judge. I've been in this club since the mid 70s (i.e. 35 years). I think Kevin and Robin did a fantastic job with the administrative chores of overseeing the judging process. However, the actual judging is done by field judges and it is THEIR knowledge that judging depends on. The Chief and Assistant Judge need to be good administrators; who's primary function is to make things run smoothly. I'm not going to get into the politics of what is going on because I probably know as little about it as you do, 2wheels. Also, your hearsay comments about Rocky were out of line.

[speedracer]

2wheels; I've had 5 bikes judged and I have been an assistant judge. I've been in this club since the mid 70s (i.e. 35 years). I think Kevin and Robin did a fantastic job with the administrative chores of overseeing the judging process. However, the actual judging is done by field judges and it is THEIR knowledge that judging depends on. The Chief and Assistant Judge need to be good administrators; who's primary function is to make things run smoothly. I'm not going to get into the politics of what is going on because I probably know as little about it as you do, 2wheels. Also, your hearsay comments about Rocky were out of line.

Eric
I have not been in the club as long as you, but in the 10 years I have been in, it was because of Kevin and Robin that I started to have my bikes judged. when they started to let people on the field when judging was going on it made it much more interesting. you could listen and learn how things were done. this caused me to enter my bike(and get a few more). from what I observed on the field Kevin did most of the administrative work and Robin was a bottomless pit of knowledge. also I was near the action when Rocky went off on that guy near his vending spot(not very pretty) missed Friday night at the firehouse, but was told that was not a very good thing either

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Robin, it was nice to say hello to you at Oley, and I'll be at Denton if you want to talk some more. Perhaps I can say a few words about my take on judging developments, as you have again mentioned my name in your posting.

First the Judging Committee is the same one you and Kevin worked with, with the addition of me. All the important issues go to a vote, and I'm just one among ten.

Likewise, you'll see when the minutes are published that most of the Board decisions on judging at Eustis went through with a 9-1 majority. The Board does not want to see any more bikes with bad numbers get AMCA judging awards, nor bikes made up mostly of replica parts. This may be why the Club has now had to protect itself from lawsuits with the new judging disclaimer.

The 'inexperienced' judges you are complaining about are the same ones you worked with before. The new Chief Judge has given credit to you and Kevin for training him, and said he plans to spend more time backing up the Field Judges and managing the administration, and I'm OK with this.

So you need to acknowledge you are unlikely to be reinstated, and you haven't shown up for work at the last two National Meets. The placards, Tee shirts, and protests through shills are unbecoming to someone of your skills and knowledge. How about writing down your knowledge on Indians, Japanese, and as-raced competition bikes so that other Club members can benefit from it? It's not about you and me, but about the Club membership and having fun with old bikes. We need to move on and together support the new AMCA judging system. Best regards.

[felthamw]

Eric
......when they started to let people on the field when judging was going on it made it much more interesting. you could listen and learn how things were done.......

Am I missing something here? In the past, I was told that the owner was "allowed" and requested to be on the field in case the judges had questions. Has that changed? I hope NOT!

That worked two ways. It was invaluable to me to be able to listen as the judging team critiqued my bike. I was also graciously allowed to add input to keep the confusion to a minimum when the judges looked at the previous sheets and didn't understand what was written (too cryptic).

I joined this club solely because of the tremendous KNOWLEDGE BASE within the judging teams. My goal was the same as the club, to represent exactly what the factory offered. To me, correctly restoring a bike is a challenge beyond belief. But rewarding well beyond that. Maybe not to some but I take personal pride in the "fight to find the truth". Being on the field was invaluable-where else can I get the information?.

If it has in fact changed, are the judging teams going to stick around after the awards and explain thier decisions? In what limited meets I have entered, good luck. Sunday afternoon? Time to go!

I would look in my handbook to see what the policy is but....hey, guess what? After Eustis, it is pretty much outdated. I realize the judging aspect of the club is in transition, but come on guys! So, are we still going to be allowed on the field?

Wayne Feltham #4329

[kval]

Am I missing something here? In the past, I was told that the owner was "allowed" and requested to be on the field in case the judges had questions. Has that changed? I hope NOT!

That worked two ways. It was invaluable to me to be able to listen as the judging team critiqued my bike. I was also graciously allowed to add input to keep the confusion to a minimum when the judges looked at the previous sheets and didn't understand what was written (too cryptic). Wayne Feltham #4329

Wayne
before Robin and I took over, the judging field was locked down when judging started. we opened the field for owners and spectators, feeling that it would help people understand how things were done and make it a more friendly atmosphere