100Points?

[indianut]

I am just curious, as I am not into Judging, but it has been said here recently that there is No Such Thing as a 100 point bike. What about something like this next year when It is eligible? Again, just curious.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Harle...1127b51f#v4-35

[Mr. Big]

[Rubone]

Nope, because that is not how it came from the factory! The side covers are aftermarket accessories, also the light "eyebrows" and passenger pegs. And while accessories do not count against originality, the "original" passenger pegs are missing and have aftermarket in their place, so an "original" part is missing. No 100 points for that!
Robbie

[bmh]

I think the frame ID tag is bogus. I doubt they were making 76 models in April of 75. That's about 3 months earlier than the switch-over typically has been.

[bikerdds]

As a rule, we have not allowed 100 points for a restored bike.There is always something off slightly. Even if every part was 100% correct, the chance of duplicating factory finish is next to zero. So, at least 1/4 point would be deducted. Most of the bikes are over restored, at least where the paint is concerned. We judge bikes all the time that never looked this good when they left the factory.
A original paint bike is another story. Because we have to allow for wear and tear, if everything is correct other wise it can obtain 100points. Note any bike being awarded 100 points initially is automatically referred to the head judge for review. An original bike can have no repainted parts, either.

[D.Mac]

Antique?

[QUOTE=indianut;93261] What about something like this next year when It is eligible?

I Just can't see bikes from this era being considered antique. Maybe another 25 or 30 years.
Doug.

[Steve Slocombe]

Yup, you don't get much in 35 years these days.

As a point of detail I do believe there is such a thing as a 100 point bike. If a well qualified team of AMCA Judges can't find anything to deduct in 20-25 minutes then almost by definition that bike scores 100 points.

[Robin-M]

I disagree with a 100 point restored motorcycle. I, myself, have several 99-1/2 to 99-3/4 point bikes. I told the judges what the problem was with them years ago because they wanted to give me 100 points and I showed them the slight problems. If there is a team of knowledgable, qualified, experienced judges they will be able to find a flaw somewhere. Although a lot of our judges are really good, experience and knowledge are two of the main important thing in judging. As the former Assistant Chief Judge, I could hand pick qualified, experienced judges in every class, in every brand that the AMCA has to judge and we could find a flaw. One of the biggest flaws is the motorcycles are made too perfect.

On an unrestored bike it is possible to have 100 points.

Robin Markey

[kval]

I have to agree with Robin 99.999%, we are after all only human and therefore are not perfect. that being the truth, how could we possibly restore a bike exactly "as it left the factory". most restored bikes have paint work that is much better then any factory paint work and should lose points for that fact alone.
an unrestored bike that is a totally different story. there are members that have "brand new" 35+ year old motorcycles, still in the crate. even if they have an incorrect part for that year, it is still "as it left the factory"

[Greg H]

Hi Steve, Robin, Kevin

I feel that on the quest to have a bike judged for 100 % restored catagory (applies to unrestored i guess) the greater issue for a member is the lack of a good judgement before his project starts!
Yes i`m talking about validation of motor/frame numbers for correctness, sure a member would rather know what he has before rather than on a judging field after much time/effort/cash has been lavished.
Maybe the first thing a judge addresses on the viewing of a bike for the first time is this
See no obvious resource in the AMCA setup for this, for a member to self judge from a single point reliable scource, maybe some sort of " Eligibility to be considered for field judging" process.
The payback for the AMCA would be photo record of all good numbers to maybe build a registry for marque/model/year, even if a present owner never puts in for field judging, other threads on here crossing over this line of thought.

http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...ad.php?t=15869
I understand less experienced judges refer to some form of liteurature for font style recognition at present.

P.S. Steve wheres "Egland" lol

Greg Hoey

[INLINE4NUT]

Bout time someone made sense ........

[bikerdds]

If you read the caption about this basically being a new never used machine, absolutely it can qualify for 100 points. It is unrestored.
The judging consensus for some time has been it is almost impossible to retore a bike and not have it look restored. The biggest problem has been duplicating original paint finish. On a newer Harley like the one shown, the finish is still 100% original. No need to try and copy it as it is as left the factory. Any original bike has allowances for wear, tear, dinged and some corrosion. No one has duplicated the finish on an Indian or Harley that fooled any judging team into thinking it was original on any bike prior to 1955 I'm aware of. The finished just weren't perfect like we see today, plus, the paint itself is so different. We will hit with at least a 1/4 point deduction for too perfect a finish. We have had an attempt or two, but there are tell tale, recognizeable signs as a rule when trying to fake a patina.

[Mark Woodstock]

I have wondered many nights while working on my bikes about the 100 point criteria. As far as I'm concerned, when someone is restoring a bike to go through the AMCA Judging System, they should be striving to obtain 100 points. However, I've also have some questions about what the goal is that we are striving for.

Is it a bike as it had left the factory? As a friend of mine said the other day, they left the factory in a wooden crate with the handle bars strapped to the side of the box. Or, is it a bike as it arrived to the showroom, or a bike as it left the showroom. If it's how a bike arrived to the showroom, the bike would have no period accessories. If it's how a bike left the showroom, then the bike may have had period accessories.

I hope that the powers to be will get this figured out, as I think we need to be clear as to exactly what we are striving for.

Best regards.

[bmh]

Over the years I've seen many a brand new bike sitting on a showroom floor wearing almost as much of the accessory catalog as could be hung on it. Some one would buy it, and others would stand a look at it while paper work was being done and say "hey, could ya put one of those on mine before I pick it up?"

[Rubone]

This was my response on another forum,

Just as a side note on the FLH. The question as to how it came from the factory (what current AMCA judging wants) and how it came from the dealer have very different answers. When a new FLH arrived at a dealership it came in a crate packed with a group of boxes containing many of the cosmetic parts that were then added by the dealership. The handlebars were strapped to the sides of the forks and had to be installed. The handlebar clamp cover was installed over them with self tapping screws. The spotlight bar, lights and turn signals had to be assembled and connected to the terminal board. The front crash bar had to be installed and the rear bag guards and hangers installed. The fairing and windshield had to go on. The fenders had to be drilled and the tips installed. The front and rear bumpers too. Also the seat and rear turn signal bar and lights. And the master cylinder cover, the pipe heat shields, pedal pad, tour pack, bottom front fender trim, the mirrors, top shock covers, passenger pegs, coil cover, floorboards, and any other special accessories. So there is a lot of chances for minor differences from one to another depending on the skill of the assembler and consistency from dealer to dealer. Always enough to show up as a 1/4 point deduction. As an example, the rear fender tip on the bike in question looks crooked. So again, no 100 pointer.

Robbie