Why not a 4th level of national award?

[Sportster Jerry]

From reading the reactions to the recent modifications to the judging system, it has become apparent that a large percentage of our members are unhappy with the changes. My Dad and I have participated in judging at various meets for years, and it upsets me that both he and I have suggested that maybe we will sit out the judging at Oley this year. It's not that our bikes will no longer qualify....we both ride 98+ point original paint bikes with nothing to hide. The reason is that it just doesn't seem fun anymore. We both have our bikes judged for no other reason than enjoyment. The enjoyment of taking our vintage bikes out for a nice ride (we always ride them to the meets), having people appreciate them on the judging field, and have expert judges tell us what we can do to make them more correct.

Judging under Kevin & Robin was always an enjoyable experience. In fact, after our bikes made winners circle, one time at Jefferson Kevin even made sure that our bikes were checked at the beginning of the pack so that we could be on the road in time to make the 3.5 hour trip home before it got dark. I'm sure there are hundreds of other members with similar stories. But now it sounds like things are starting to change.

If the AMCA wants to make the national awards more prestigious, why not just add another level of award rather than tamper with a system that most members seemed to be happy with. Rather than make it more difficult and unpleasant to reach winner's circle, wouldn't it make more sense to add a new level of national award beyond it? All other regulations regarding Junior, Senior, and Winner's Circle could have remained the same, but people with bikes that they feel are the "pride of the AMCA" or "concourse correct" would be able to continue the process to another step. This new award could represent what the AMCA is trying to turn winner's circle in to with recent changes.

The AMCA could make the new national award as difficult to achieve as they want. The minimum number of points needed to qualify could be raised to 98. All repro parts could be cause for DQ from this category. Whatever you want really, because it's a new award and people can pursue it if they WANT, or just be content with the old awards they already earned.

Judging should be as inclusive as possible. My guess is that judging is what has drawn a lot of our members to the club. Imagine spending years restoring a bike only to find out that it is can never get above the junior level because of a repop frame? Or even worse....imagine the person with a bike that they bought new only to see it get DQ'd because of a legitimate engine case replacement done by the factory during it's functional life?

The members are speaking and they are not happy. There is still time to fix this situation. My suggestion is just and idea, but I'm sure if the club works together we can come up with something that will be better for the good of ALL members of the club.

[bikerdds]

Jerry, there are a few of us who have thought of something similar to what you mentioned as a 4th level of judging. Redfred and myself have talked about something like this, but at this time, the biggest factor is time. We obviously need to let the dust settle over the recent storm and see how some of the suggestions from the judging rules committee ends up, but in the future there may be room for a concours level. This is where you now would have to demonstrate that everything works-hi beam-low beam, horn, etc, tool set, tool box lock that actually latches as well as locks and owner's manual. At this time we have our hands full, but as the number of automotive concours grows and more bikes are invited, this level becomes a possible reality. Fred has been to Pebble Beach, Robin andI have been to Amelia Island [three times with bikes or more] now Meadowbrook, and more concours to come. However, none of these concours events grades the actual vehicle correctness like AMCA. Mostly eye candy, but these other areas are required. Most of the vehicles have been graded at other type shows previously, but AMCA judging still rates.

[redfred84]

Concours stuff

Jerry, there are a few of us who have thought of something similar to what you mentioned as a 4th level of judging. Redfred and myself have talked about something like this, but at this time, the biggest factor is time. We obviously need to let the dust settle over the recent storm and see how some of the suggestions from the judging rules committee ends up, but in the future there may be room for a concours level. This is where you now would have to demonstrate that everything works-hi beam-low beam, horn, etc, tool set, tool box lock that actually latches as well as locks and owner's manual. At this time we have our hands full, but as the number of automotive concours grows and more bikes are invited, this level becomes a possible reality. Fred has been to Pebble Beach, Robin andI have been to Amelia Island [three times with bikes or more] now Meadowbrook, and more concours to come. However, none of these concours events grades the actual vehicle correctness like AMCA. Mostly eye candy, but these other areas are required. Most of the vehicles have been graded at other type shows previously, but AMCA judging still rates.

Actually, these Concours type shows (at least Pebble anyway) have the ability to screen their entrants. I have been working with AMCA member Ed Gilbertson, who is the Chief Judge at Pebble Beach, in his organization of this years' presentation of American built motorcycles. We did all the originality & background checking before accepting the machine. Now that they have a select field of original/correct bikes, they grade them on their functions; if the tool box key works, if the tools are in there, if the head light works, etc.....all this done while the bike is idling! It was pretty cool to watch last year, when they judged the Rollie Free Bathing suit Vincent, after starting it with rollers.
Neat stuff!
RF.

[Rubone]

Actually, these Concours type shows (at least Pebble anyway) have the ability to screen their entrants. I have been working with AMCA member Ed Gilbertson, who is the Chief Judge at Pebble Beach, in his organization of this years' presentation of American built motorcycles. We did all the originality & background checking before accepting the machine. Now that they have a select field of original/correct bikes, they grade them on their functions; if the tool box key works, if the tools are in there, if the head light works, etc.....all this done while the bike is idling! It was pretty cool to watch last year, when they judged the Rollie Free Bathing suit Vincent, after starting it with rollers.
Neat stuff!

I don't intend to hijack this thread but I must respond. As long as the community of Pebble Beach continues to ban motorcycles on their streets I will vehemently oppose any member of he AMCA taking part in any function there!
Robbie

[redfred84]

Pebble Beach bike ban

The Delmonte Forrest, where Pebble Beach is located, is a private, un-incorperated property. We don't really have a say on private property. However, during the week of the Concours, Motorcycles are allowed! And, American made motorcycles will be featured in the Concours for the very 1st time!
Maybe this can change things?
RF.

[joestuff]

I'm agreeing with Jerry here.

I must say the Judging has been enjoyable for me also, and I'm an apprentice judge. I'm thinking I might just watch the judging this year at Oley instead of apprenticing again, as I'm not sure I want to be stuck with the irate owner explaining the rule changes.

Anyway, this and the other thread are being good. Some board members and the new chief are hearing our concerns, which is appreciated.