Hostile Takeover

[Robin-M]

This thread shows the typical problem that we had on the Hostile Judging Committee that was started in October. Everyone gets sidetracked and starts heading down their own path and not paying attention to the topic. I'm glad this happened, is shows how difficult it is to manage a topic with just the written word.

The main reason that I posted this hostile takeover of the judging system is about the judging system. I sure hope it doesn't involve the whole club, but it is worrying me too that the president left all this happen. If our president allowed a hostile takeover to take over our smooth running judging system, what else will he allow. There's been a lot of arguing back and forth over all the good and bad things of the AMCA. My AMCA # is 831, yes, I've been here a long time. I've seen a lot of good and I've seen a lot of bad. And I work on and ride antique motorcycles almost every day. This is my life. This isn't only my hobby. I'm not downing anybody for antique motorcycles being their hobby, this is what keeps our club going. My complaint is when a few hobbyists with limited knowledge, bearly out of the judging apprenticeship program are allowed to take over a smooth working judging system that was benefiting our members. This is the main problem that I'm trying to point out to the membership. With their arrogant, one-sided, lack of experience and common sense and the non-human element they are trying to force down the throats of our membership, they will turn everyone away from our judging system because they will make it so impersonal and so unrewarding by adding a lot more stress to an already stressful situation. And don't forget, the new venue is that the New AMCA Judging System is not to increase the value of your motorcycle.

Just like the new rules that they initiated in Eustis. When Kevin and I were still part of the judging committee, we asked them several times why the big hurry? Discussions on the new judging committee were subject to a time limit, we were given very little time to discuss a change in the rules. It didn't take long to figure out that they wanted to initiate them at Eustis. We saw what was happening and their lack of knoweldge, common sense and their disregard for our membership, they were not going to give any time at all for these new rules to be publicized for the membership to view. The big corporate mentality that is now in charge of the judging does not believe in the human element. I have been told this several times and saw it in black and white print. At our meeting we had at Eustis on Thursday night, which consisted of several of the New Judging Committee members including our new chief judge and his wife (who was taking the minutes intead of our committee secretary, RedFred) and a few board members, we discussed quite a few of the topics we were working on since October. Anyone that knows me, and that I have talked to, knows my experience and dedication and common sense that I inject into a topic. I gave competent, proven opinions on most every topic that we discussed. When I saw the minutes from the meeting I was astonished. I wasn't mentioned till the end. Everyone else had a description of what they talked about. At the bottom of the page is said "And Robin Added the Human Element". Isn't that nice.

Steve Slocombe referred to the new judging system as more "rigorous" and said that's why Kevin and I didn't want to be involved. I would not use the word rigorous, I'd describe it as ridiculous. The way I look at the New Judging System being rigorous, is the speed at which these new ridiculous rules have been put in place with no regard to the membership. They instituted all these new rules in Eustis, forgetting about the Omaha chapter meet (same weekend) and they are continuing to make more changes to our judging system and they're not worried about telling the membership ahead of time. They will continue to make new changes to our judging system till it will soon be unrecognizable. I need help to stop this destruction of our judging system and the degradation of our valued antique motorcycles. Even if you're not interested in the AMCA judging system, remember, if this handful of people did this to the judging system they can do it to any aspect of the AMCA.

Remember, Rocky was supposed to be in charge of the new committee, but with his lack of knowledge of anything pertaining to the judging system, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that he was not really in charge, it was still the person that initiated the first illegal judging committee, Steve Slocombe. Kevin and I realized very quickly what was happening and couldn't for the life of us think that they were actually going to be able to overthrow the system. But, the president, Rocky, left this happen.

In my opinion, our president Rocky, who has the power, can deem this entire judging fiasco null and void and put Kevin and I back in charge so the judging system has the benefit of our experience and also for the benefit of the preservation of antique motorcycles for our membership.

I'm not the greatest politician in the world, but I challenge anyone to go against my expertise, knowledge and common sense on motorcycles and our judging system.

Robin Markey

[INLINE4NUT]

exeric, Well said !! I have enjoyed hours and hours of pleasure from the club wheather it be reading the Rag or actually going to many meets with my friends !!
Its all the other crap thats going on that takes center stage ! And Im afraid to say it looks to me as nothing has been resolved !!! Lets just forget and roll on,well if it ever happens to the people that DONT WANT to clear things up I will be among the 1st to remind them of this ! Have a good day my friend !

[fillibuster]

I've attempted to stay out of this judging embroglio but my brief step into it was stupid and rude. I want to apologize to RichO for my misdirected comments and hope that he and anyone else who's feelings I have hurt, will forgive me. My mission from here on out (barring lapses of stupidity) is to be a good club member and to respect and enjoy what this great club has to offer. Some of the best times I have had were because of an AMCA organized event. I collect and treasure "The Antique Motorcycle", and AMCA members are among the best friends I have. Maybe we should all take a moment to reflect on what the AMCA has done for us. I for one, do not want to live in a world without the AMCA.

exeric, you're a man of my heart! See, I'm clumsier with words than you are, and if my buds didn't forgive me I'd be absolutely homeless. Welcome home bro, beer's on me!

[exeric]

I've attempted to stay out of this judging embroglio but my brief step into it was stupid and rude. I want to apologize to RichO for my misdirected comments and hope that he and anyone else who's feelings I have hurt, will forgive me. My mission from here on out (barring lapses of stupidity) is to be a good club member and to respect and enjoy what this great club has to offer. Some of the best times I have had were because of an AMCA organized event. I collect and treasure "The Antique Motorcycle", and AMCA members are among the best friends I have. Maybe we should all take a moment to reflect on what the AMCA has done for us. I for one, do not want to live in a world without the AMCA.

[joestuff]

Yes, please note is was not Hackwing who made the spitting comment.

I agree with jmanjeff, this is the modern age, we can all be here, so take advantage of the good parts and enjoy a nice online debate.

Part of that is just the power to ignore people that go to far, or to call them out in a polite yet firm manner. It is much easier to have a tough discussion face to face then online.

[hackwing]

Read First, Then Type!

This is my last post for a while, so:

1. I DO NOT APPOVE of VIOLENCE OF ANY KIND!

2. I DID NOT MAKE ANY THREATS.

3. I DID NOT ATTACK THE BOARD!


What I do stand for is:

1. The right of every member to have an opinion and their right to state it publicly.

2. The rights of the general membership to have a say in critical club matters.

3. Halting the abuse of the current system to ram thru private agendas without involving the membership.


I have been privately contacted by several members of the board and I have told them that:

1. I have great personal respect for them and would be happy to assist them in any way that they deem appropriate.

2. Should it be necessary, I am prepared to step in and fix the preregistration system which is now non-functional.

3. I have never meet Steve Slocomb but as I said before this is not personnel and should we meet at Oley I will greet him like any other brother or sister member with open arms and will break bread with him (I might even pay).

For those of you who don't know who I am, I am the guy that spent 1,000 hours this past year assembling trophies, ordering supplies for the trophies, mailing out engraved plaques, answering new member questions, fixing errors in the database from past years, personally calling members when there was an issue with the bike information and fixing the database.

I never made a big deal out of it, I figured I owed the club that much given what the club has done for me and my family.

Hackwing

[jmanjeff]

Hackwing - The Board does not believe that this web site is the place for debate, .

There are a lot of members that live to far to go to any of the meets and my chapter is a 5 hour dive one way , so yes this is a good place for it every one can see what every has to say.

kept Respect full and somewhat Civil and sigh your name just like you are at a meet

[Magic]

Out of Control

Ok being a member of the Perkiomen Chapter and having a concern for any possible problems at our beautifull area meet this will be brought up as I don't want or need a few Hot heads to cause problems. The Thug mentality appears to still be associated with our sport it seems. I missed last Sundays meeting at the Reading M/C Club because of work or I would of brought it up then however this will be forwarded as a precaution for security reasons of others with a phone call this evening. Say what you will however cooler heads better prevail in this matter. I know Kevin and Robin wouldn't support these hostile threatening comments and should of spoke up sooner and just may soon enough...This is our Hobby and Sport Don't bring attitude like that into it. I've been around long enough and know what the ole mentality of some bikers can be... I am one Nuff said

[INLINE4NUT]

Mr Woodstock Please get your facts straight !!! hackwing is NOT the one wanting to spit in anyones face! I took that "spitting in his face " as a matter of speach, nothing more,now had the person actually done it a good it would have been dealt with !!!!If you took the time to READ the WHOLE thread you would never have said that !! I realize the Board really doesnt give a "Tinkers Dam" about what goes on here !! Maybe they should at least look at how club members feel !!
I also feel it should be kept Respectfull and somewhat Civil ,isnt that the way this whole mess could have been avoided from the get go ????
I for one still think Kevin and Robin deserved a better send off than they got,had that happened then we all may have been talking a differant tact !!!

[Mark Woodstock]

Hackwing - I don't think you have done your "cause" much good with your rant. The Board does not believe that this web site is the place for debate, and if they are attacked like this, then I don't blame them for feeling this way. Spitting in someone's face like another member said he would so willingly do, or letting a member know that you have friends that will do more at Oley, will do nothing more than destroy this Club.

I have no problem with intelligent and informed debate, but to personally threaten members because they have a different opinion than you do, is not only ignorant, but undermines the integrity of our Club and of its members.

If members continue to come on this web site and feel the need to spread this sort of personal affront against any club member, then they should at least be man enough to sign their name at the bottom of the thread, instead of hiding behind a pseudonym.

I'm feeling the same frustrations as everyone is feeling, but we need to keep this civil and respectful, and all act like grown men.

[hackwing]

Now I am sure there is a communications problem!

Steve,

It is now clear that you have a severe reading problem! I am serious!

1. I never said a word about spitting (although I did appreciate the information from the Spitting society). I do not spit, yell, use bad language or resort to violence except in the case of self preservation! It was someone else.

2. I have no issues with an all make club. I have an issue with people who are NOT AMERICANS holding office in a club which is 99.9% American.
Therefore I support Members from Canada, The U.S., Mexico and all of Central America. I also support affliate members from the rest of the world who can have meets and chapters but are not eligible to serve as "NATIONAL" officers.

3. There was a specific reason that when The U.S. Constitution was written that only native born Americans could hold the office of President Of The United States. That reason was the fear of agendas not in the best interest of the country being propogated by the holder of the office. I object to an non-resident of the Americas holding a directorship of this club. I would object if you were the King of England with the same vigor.

4. Since the first post I have received email and phone calls from many distinquished members who do not know me. EVERY CALL is the same, they onject to what you and the current president have done and the way you have done it.

Be aware:

1. There are individuals who are organizing to demand a rewrite of the club constitution.

2. There are people organizing to have both you and Rocky removed from the board.

Both are legitimate rights of the members which will come to a vote sooner or later.

And, for your benefit, I am NOT participating in any of this. However I guarentee you no one here is going to allow this to go on without a fight. And if adequate redress is not provided by the board and fast, the whole thing could wind up in court.

Hackwing


Finally, I have not taken any lumps in this discussion because I have nothing to lose, but be advised some of my fellow members are beginning to move from annoyed to out right hostile, you might want to take this into account before Oley and offer an olive branch.

[fillibuster]

.. the Sunday Funnies!

[Lonnie]

If one is to resort to spitting, one should be aware that there are certain ground rules that must be observed, as noted in the bylaws of the American Spitting Society. Briefly, they are:

1> No spitting without provocation. Spitting must be preceded by civil discourse followed by raised voices, 86 db minumum.

2> Forewarning has not traditionally been a requirement, however due to the enactment of concealed carry permits across much of the United States, it is highly recommended. If in doubt as to the response of the spittee, consideration of the attire of the prospective spittee is highly recommended (if the spittee is wearing a vest, use extreme caution). In light of this, advance notice by the spitter to the spittee is, again, highly recommended.

3> Spitting of tobacco juice, or any similar derivative, on any part of the body other than the shoes is strictly prohibited (for reference, refer to the Movie "The Outlaw Josey Wales"). Violation of this edict is punishable by dismemberment (yes, you read this correctly) of the offender.

4> In the name of good taste, the spitter is advised to use proper oral hygiene. Use of a mouthwash prior to spitting on a spittee is recommended though not required.

5> Use of a face shield, or at a minumum, goggles or other safety eyewear is recommended if you expect to become a spittee.

6> Return fire is to be expected. The spitter should take all reasonable precautions. Remember, what goes around, comes around.

For information in starting your own chapter of the American Spitting Society, please reference your local telephone directory. Unfortunately, there are no European chapters at this time due to cultural and ideological differences. However, membership by Europeans or Asians or Antarticans is possible, there are additional costs for mailing of the monthly newsletter.

As a sidenote, please plan to attend our annual conference in Niagara Falls, NY this year.

Thank you for your continued support.

[Paquette]

Pretty heavy stuff here, but would it be possible to amend the AMCA Bylaws to allow for 2 directors to be elected at large by the MEMBERSHIP not the national board? Michael 6671

[Steve Slocombe]

Dear Joe, good idea. I've asked our new Chief Judge to say a few words in summary on this judging thread, and I've started a new thread under Parking Lot Chatter called 'Your AMCA Board' to try to answer governance questions.

Dear Hackwing and others, I'm sorry if you think I'm a rich English aristocrat, but I'm another working guy who does his own restorations and has more than his share of Junior Second judging trophies. If you're going to join an all makes bike club that does not discriminate on membership, then you're going to have to take your lumps. Please take it easy on the spitting at Oley, and best regards.