Frame changes for 1954 Panheads

[Speeding Big Twin]

Cheers Jerry. However, according to Chris and Bruce the info does indeed exist. Chris has said several times and on more than one site that Bruce has a blueprint which lists dates of frame changes and that it says when the 54 SL appeared as far as engine SNs are concerned.

In his SE Bruce refers to drawing 47000-40A but some info said to be on the drawing is contradicted in his book and some of that text is itself contradicted on other pages. Some may try to interpret some info in the book but that doesn’t necessarily mean their conclusions will be correct. And it seems pointless trying to interpret the book when we know the proper info is on drawing 47000-40A which is why I keep asking for it to be posted. When we see the drawing the confusion will end.
Eric

[Jerry Wieland]

I started this thread last September but the situation remains unresolved. Why is that? Why has no AMCA judge clarified info said to be on H-D drawing 47000-40A? The best solution would be for the drawing to be posted but that hasn’t happened either. Why can’t the drawing be made accessible to all members of this forum?
Eric

Eric The truth is that you have pursued this topic harder than anybody else. On the topic of 1954 frames the AMCA judges know lots less than you do. The sad truth is that a lot of this information no longer exists either on paper or in the minds of people now gone. The truth might be that HD never really did document it as long as one frame was just as good as the next.

I have judged numerous times. The AMCA judges are for the most part volunteers and have to be knowledgeable over a wide span of years and marques. Serial number breaks on a 54 frame is not within there job description.

Jerry

[Speeding Big Twin]

I started this thread last September but the situation remains unresolved. Why is that? Why has no AMCA judge clarified info said to be on H-D drawing 47000-40A? The best solution would be for the drawing to be posted but that hasn’t happened either. Why can’t the drawing be made accessible to all members of this forum?
Eric

[Speeding Big Twin]

Perhaps Bruce Palmer could help you. I'm pretty sure he would want to know about any contradictory information in his much relied upon books. Hope this helps......Smitty

I’ve tried before to contact Bruce about the 1954 contradictions. For example, I emailed him twice in September 2017 but received no reply.

Over the years I’ve raised the matter on other forums but no-one has clarified the info in his book which is why I tried contacting him. This year I emailed Bruce several times but received no response. I’ve told him I’m trying to help owners of 54s. No reply. I asked for a copy of the drawing and I offered to pay in advance. No response.
Eric

[HDSmitty]

Perhaps Bruce Palmer could help you. I'm pretty sure he would want to know about any contradictory information in his much relied upon books. Hope this helps......Smitty

[Speeding Big Twin]

It is three months since I started this thread but I still see no answers to my questions about changes to 54 Pan frames. At what stage, as far as engine serial numbers are concerned, did the second WB debut and when did the SL appear?
Eric

[Chris Haynes]

I disagree. Eric[/FONT]

You are entitled to your opinion.

[Speeding Big Twin]

SBT, it seems that the only person interested in this is you.

I disagree. In August on six forums I placed a wanted ad for the Harley drawing and the view count suggests hundreds of people are interested.

Do some research on original bikes and let everyone know what I find? Why would anyone need to do that? Aren’t the answers on the drawing? They are indeed, according to you and Bruce Palmer, so why is research needed?

I have Bruce’s book but it doesn’t help because it is contradictory and nobody has clarified the situation. The best way to resolve the matter is to see drawing 47000-40A so why can’t it be posted? If there’s a problem then it could be sent to me and I’ll post it. And I’ll pay for it in advance as I’ve offered to do many times. I’m sure plenty of people would like to see it, especially 54 owners, some of whom I’ve been trying to help for years.
Eric

[Chris Haynes]

SBT, it seems that the only person interested in this is you. Do some research on original bikes and let us know what you find.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Bruce is right.

But on which page? And what about the change from first WB to second WB?

Page 54 of the SE (2014) says the first 3500 1954 BTs have WB. And we all know what that indicates as far as engine SNs are concerned.

However, page 54 is contradicted by the FYoF list on page 952 which indicates only about the first 2500 BTs had WB because it says return of the straight-leg frame at approximately engine 54FL3501. Page 952 also said the return was mid-season which is consistent with captions on pages 950-951 saying mid-year change to straight-leg. But pages 54-55 describe a late-54 straight-leg. If the straight-leg appeared in late-54 then why is there mention of it at mid-season and mid-year?

The 1954-OF paragraph on 952 includes WB with flattened downtubes. That would be the first type of WB. It also indicates a mid-season change at approx 54FL3500 and that should be to the second WB which appears to be confirmed by its description: WB with non-flattened downtubes. But page 952 had already said return of the straight-leg at approximately engine 54FL3501 and at mid-season.

These contradictions are some of the reasons why I’d like to see the factory drawing posted and it could also go in the AMCA virtual library for everyone’s future reference.
Eric

[Chris Haynes]

Chris, you disagree with Bruce Palmer regarding the change from WB frame to SL. Both of you have referred to a certain drawing but you contradict each other regarding its content. Who is right, Bruce or you? .
Eric

Bruce is right. I was speaking in general terms. Bruce got his print directly from H-D decades ago before Tom Bolfert slammed the door on authors getting factory help.

[Speeding Big Twin]

Chris, you disagree with Bruce Palmer regarding the change from WB frame to SL. Both of you have referred to a certain drawing but you contradict each other regarding its content. Who is right, Bruce or you?

Maybe it was a matter of interpretation? Regardless of what happened, if the drawing was posted then it would give 54 owners the evidence they need when looking for a frame to suit their engine. But without the drawing current owners remain in limbo and the same will apply the next time someone asks what frame to use.
Eric

[Speeding Big Twin]

If you do a google search for frame blueprints you may be surprised at what you find.

Still no luck finding drawing/blueprint 47000-40A.

According to you in other threads the blueprint says that after frame 3000 in 1954 they were all straight leg.

Palmer disagrees. Depending on which page of his book is read, the factory drawing is said to show the change from WB to straight leg happened at approximately frame 2500 or about frame 3500.

Three changeover points from WB to straight leg? Are any of them correct? I do not know but apparently the drawing does and that is one of the reasons I’d like to see it posted. And I’m betting a lot of other people would also appreciate seeing it.
Eric

[Speeding Big Twin]

We know Bruce Palmer has the drawing I'm chasing but I don’t know where he got it from. Can anyone tell me? I don’t know why there are contradictions regarding its content and neither do I know why the drawing hasn’t been posted. If it was posted then the contradictions could be resolved and everybody would benefit.
Eric

[Chris Haynes]

I’ve done that many times over the years and drawing 47004-49A shows up all over the place.

But the one I’m chasing is said to be 47000-40A and I have had no luck finding it. Apparently you have though so perhaps you could provide a link to it.
Eric

George Hood bought the frame table from Eddie Ryan's San Pedro, CA H-D Dealership. It came with a stack of H-D frame blueprints. Whether he had the -40 print you need or not I don't know. Sadly he just passed this week and I have no idea what is going to happen with his stuff.