Horrific judging at Eustis

[Don P]

I have a friend that placed his M/C in the show last year as a junior entry. His score was 99 & 1/4 point. Not bad for his first try. This year the same bike UNCHANGED and exactly as the year before did not receive enough points to be mentioned. Whats up with that. When the judges were questioned after the awards were handed out there was a question on the rims if they were correct for the year and acording to the judges that were present it was a toss up. Naturaly the judge that made the point deduction had left for the day. How convienent. As to the remaining judges they buckeled under question and gave the points back so the owner was in the winners circle. If at all they should have stood there ground in my opinion. Not that I didn't want to see it corrected but that shows if you squeek you get the grease. Piss poor judging at its best. Why is it if the judges are unsure if the part is correct the first thing is to deduct points ? It should be the other way around. Substantiate your veiw then deduct points and if you cannot substantiate your veiw then NO deductions. Enough of my venting on the judging.

It would have been nice if the Sunshine chapter could have set a booth or table so new commers could get some info when arriving. Nothing of the sort was set up that I could find and as a result I was unable to get my ride'em and display'em pins as stated in the spring issue for the meet.
Is there any way the web site could post a itinerary for the meets ? As a member since Feb. 03 I have only received my third magazine so I do not have anything to refrence to for info.
I thought there are 4 issues a year? Seems I missed a few. I might be better off spendind my money else where.

[AdminGuy]

Good points. They did say judging was going to get tougher. Booth is usually at front gate? Maybe it was inside?

[LouieMCman]

The Sunshine Chapter table is always set up inside the building because it sometimes (always) rains in FL. There is a table outside by the gate to greet vendors and anyone else coming in, I'm sure someone would have directed you inside if you have ask. Did you? As far as the judging, I judged at the meet and as always there are questions. I know that there were a wide variety of makes and models on the field and it's hard to find judges that know every thing about your bike. I would invite you to join in and help judge sometime, you might make a difference. As far as you not getting a rider pin, refer to the question above, Did you ask someone?

Louie

[jww]

I had my bike judged at Eustis, and as stated they not only had a good turnout, they had a very diverse span of makes and models. The judging is getting tighter, scored 92 3/4 at Davenport first time out with 21 items to change, 20 of which I did. Scored 98 1/4 at Eustis with the 1 item left unchanged and 7 new incorrect items found. Appears the system is headed towards higher standards, which is good in my opinion. If my only interest was trophies I would enter the saturday show circuit. The AMCA Judging System must remain tough for it to have any value. Consistancy is hard to accomplish but I think they are working towards it. I don't spend the time required to Judge so don't have the right to complain, they do the best they can at the time, good, bad or indifferent.
I have a question, I was told when I picked up my judging sheet in Eustis that we must obtain the Senior Award twice now? Anyone know about this? I can live with it but it seems if they were going to change it would have gone into effect with first time out bikes and not those of us in mid stream with the process. If the objective is to make a 3 appearance manditory rule prior to Winners Circle vs. the 2 appearance manditory, sounds more logical to make Junior 2nd manditory rather than two Seniors. Any feedback appreciated.
Johnny

[RWasson]

Judging the British Bikes

I had the only Triumph in the Eustis judging. There were only 4 total British bikes out of 78 being judged (2 BSAs, a Norton, and my Tiger Cub). The judges spent 32 minutes deducting points from my bike, versus about 15-20 minutes each on the Harleys and Indians (which makes made up more than 60 of the entries). I don't know whether I would rather think that the much greater time spent on my bike was due to the judges' unfamiliarity with Triumphs, or just their closer scrutiny to mine versus the American makes. The level of scrutiny and the level of familiarity of the judges should be comparable between makes, if not equal. I did not see the judges consult any books or other research when taking away my points. I also was not asked any questions about the bike, as were the 2 members standing next to me (about a BMW and a Honda 750). Finally, while the rules allow for dirt on bikes ridden to the meet, I lost a point for dirt on the pipes (really cooked-on motor oil) which I could not remove from the 100-mile AMCA Road Ride the day before (of which I completed 82). I noted that ride on the tag on my bike just in case I would catch a break, but did not. Some members road 5 or 10 miles to the meet, and assumedly were not docked for dirt from the ride in. Should the Road Run dirt be deducted?

Finally, I want to congratulate the Sunshine Chapter for a very fine meet. I was able to find the schedules, locate the right people to answer all my questions, and received my Participant Pin as promised. The banquet was fun and flavorful, the ride was scenic and pleasant (although fast for my 200cc), the layout of the place was comfortable, and everyone was helpful and pleasant. Also thanks to those with bikes at the meet for putting up with my children climbing aboard your valuable treasures.

Roy

[jww]

Got an explaination regarding the question I had regarding two Senior showings. Actually, from what I understand, in the past after recieving the Senior Award the next step was a "given" Winners Circle if the bike maintained 85 points. Now, the Winners Circle Award must be "earned" by being judged same as Senior. Upon recieving Winner Circle Status, all future Winners Circle displays must maintain 85 points. This is unofficial since the source is not a Board Member, Chief Judge, etc.... but appears to be a change in interpretation and not a rule change???
Don't feel bad about the time the Judges spent on your bike Roy, in Davenport a team of 5 spent 37 minutes on my JD, they can be brutal, but after research I found most of their deductions to be correct. Don't know how long they spent on mine in Eustis, was out enjoying the Sunshine
johnny

[AdminGuy]

Holy Hanna Banana -37min! Did you get a 3 pg report out of that? Kidding.

Yes, JDs are well documented.

I like it when a very odd 1930 something Checkoslovakian bike appears. It makes things complicated. Most judges will take two steps back. Owners should carry documents to prove items.

I strongly recommend getting involved if you can. Put your knowledge to the test! It's a really intersting process.

Roy- My grandfather who was a rider always taught us that if it's not yours- don't touch it. Someone may not love you as much as I do -and chop your hand off. This simple fact drove a message home and probably saved us from getting burnt from hot engines a few times.

In the past I have lifted young kids onto friends bikes (seed young minds) after asking- and getting the nod.

When you saddle the mighty power of the Tiger Cub. The world will spin at your pace. A refective vest would most likely aid the spin. I road a friends restored cub around a parking lot once. It was fun. Some gas from tickler onto rag, will take the oil off.

[Don P]

Judging

Thanks for all the feed back on my original post both good and bad. Yes I did ask questions and must have found someone that didn't know and would not admit it. No problem and I should have persued it more. My error in judgement. As far as being a judge I am not sure if i meet the requirements to be one. Does a judge have to be present all three days of the meet? If so i will have to pass because getting time off work during special events is like pulling teeth. Don P

In anyones opinion, should a bike score the same points from meet to meet providing nothing has changed one the bike? Seems to me it should.

[kval]

horrific judging at Eustis

Don P
the judges did not cave in to your friend, the rims are still incorrect and had the deduction reduced because of the fact that your friend rides the bike and the newer rims are safer. if you would like I can take back the points and the bike will not be a Senior bike(sure your friend will like that). the judges were correct about the rims and the burden of proof is on the owner NOT the judges.
JWW
when a bike get's a Senior award, the next time it is entered it MUST be judged again to enter Winners Circle. this has been the rule for two years now and has worked very well. you have the correct idea, the objective is to make a 3 appearence manditory.

[kval]

judging British bikes

Roy
the bike you entered said it was restored, the judges were kind enough to go over the whole bike in spite of the fact that on line 25 they noted "not good for a restored bike"

JWW
no you do not have to be at the meet all 3 days, just show up Sunday at 8:00 AM for the judges meeting and serve as a apprentice for the required amount of time. we are always looking for judges and it might help you understand what goes on when a bike is judged

[jww]

Thanks for the clarifications Kevin, missed the change 2 years ago, but after talking with several judges it makes sense. The initial way it was explained to me was confusing, nevertheless its actually no change other than not riding the bike until it "earns" Winners Circle. I was not the one inquiring about being a Judge, will assure you I appreciate the time, effort and expense Judges go to, which allows the rest of us to have fun. Not for me, not passive enough for the grief. Listen to complaints at work, danged if I want to do it as a hobby!!!
Johnny

[RWasson]

Judging the Judges

Kevin:

Don't get me wrong, I am not blaming the judges for my bike not measuring up to trophy standards. I do hope to help bring more awareness about the British "marques" to the club (as I am just learning about them myself after more than 30 years riding other bikes).

I also would like to recruit apprentice judges from the ranks of our new Everglades Chapter to lend a hand to you and your crews, if help is needed. I am not hoping for favorable treatment from homegrown judges, but I do assume that a larger and more diverse pool of judging talent will serve to level the playing field by enhancing the awareness of the existing judges about less common motorcycle makes.

A couple of our members (one of whom went to the judging workshop at Eustis) have told me that they had some interest in becoming judges, but were reluctant to make the commitment of time and accept the required level of responsibility without more of an understanding of the expectations to which they would be held. One of our members who knows about everything about certain British makes also was nervous about learning what parts are correct on a Harley or Indian.

Is there any chance that we could arrange a visit to our chapter by you or another senior judge to give a pep talk to those who might want to get into judging? Maybe we could make it a two-way learning experience by having one of our Brit bike experts (or Honda experts, or another non-HD, non-Indian collector) share a pointer or two about the nuances of a certain model bike. Do you encourage entry into the judging ranks of folks who "specialize" in British or Japanese or other less common brands? Or are all the judges expected to know all bikes?

I know (from my friendships with judges in the court system) that any form of judging is a thankless job. Contestants (or litigants or lawyers) who win an award or a trial figure they had it coming to them anyway, and those who lose frequently do not accept the personal responsibility for the outcome, but blame the judges, right? Thanks to you and your cadre of judges for taking the heat and holding the targets we are shooting for, especially when our aim is a bit off.

Roy

[AdminGuy]

Yup- you specialize. More brit and ahhhhh.... errrrrrr ....Japanese specialists needed. From what I understand.

[Don P]

Judging

Thanks for the info KVAL. I'll pass along the info to him. He told me he has photo proof taken of the inside of the rims that show the proper numbers indicating the rims are correct for the year bike. Realizing no one person knows everything about any given machine and a multitude of eyes are needed for judging with different opinions and veiw points my question is how did the rims slip past the judges the year before? If all goes well for next years Eustis meet I will try to make it and apply for a judges apprentice. Hopefully this will open my eyes to the true job and responseabilities the judges encounter at the meets.