Decals/waterslide transfers HELP?

[larry]

I pour some warm water into the tank. It helps the decal stretch.

[frichie68]

A belated THANK YOU for all the great responses, with your help, I finally hot 'er done.
My first, last and only effort at body work, paint and decals, never again! It ain't perfect by any means, but it's perfect enough for me and I'm proud of it.
The decals were very fragile and came apart in a couple places, not noticeable on the finished product.
This bike is now running after 11 long years and ready for Kerrville next week. See you there!
Rich
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[shelbyinparadise]

Rich, that paint looks very good in the picture. Be Proud, see you in Kerrville, should be quite a few VL's and JD's lined up. Shelby

[billpedalino]

Len - I just ordered the 19th Century Copal Varnish. I am applying it on the oil tank decal on my '47 FL and intend to brush it onto the edges to seal the interface between the decal ant the painted surface. Is this how you applied yours and if so, how did it work out for you?

[sirhrmechanic]

Just a note on orange peel and texture....

They are inevitable in spraying! If you put on so much clear that it is glass smooth, you will end up with sags, runs, etc. In fact, on most modern mass-produced cars, you will find a lot of texture in the paint because it hides less-than-perfect panel. All manner of stamping and other minor defects can be hidden with texture. Look at your modern car or pickup truck closely and you will see texture/orange peel in the paint.

So how does one get rid of it? That's the microfinishing process... at least that's how DuPont refers to it. Other companies may use other terms. Essentially, though, this is the final sanding out of the clear to remove all the texture and get a glass-smooth finish. Wet sanding up to 2000 grit, followed by glazing and polishing compounds. Ultimately, the goal is to completely 'level' the finish.

Of course, this requires several coats of clear, applied close enough together that they will bond chemically, but not all at once or it will pool and run.

I wrote a multi-page article on microfinishing a few years ago. Details the process, procedures, etc. I'll see if I can dig it out and post. In doing that article, we actually "microfinished' a new Taurus... which from the factory had a lot of orange peel and texture on it. 12 guys in a 3 day seminar working at the thing all day. You have never seen a Taurus shine so bright after that crew was finished with it. Every inch of it was glass smooth. And then every panel defect looked like a glaring beacon!!!

I am with the OP on doing my own paint. Small stuff, sure. But fenders, body panels, tanks, etc. It's an art... I'll leave that to the artists.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[billpedalino]

Sirhr,

I know this response is slightly off-topic, but your last posting was very timely.

I have been experimenting with the painting process as well, and a LOT as changed since I used to dabble in this 35 (+) years ago! My intention is to only paint my own black stuff; frames, wheel hubs, chain guards, brackets, etc. Sheet metal is to be left to the professionals.

Thus far, I have had two problems - delamination of the color coat from the primer (since solved) and ORANGE PEEL! This new paint is a lot different than the acrylic enamels and lacquers that I used to dabble in. I'm using a DuPont product (NASON) single stage system and despite my lousy spraying technique, the finish comes out pretty well EXCEPT for all of the sanding that has to be done to make it smooth!

I would appreciate anybody's suggestions as to how I might reduce orange peel.

Thanks

[sirhrmechanic]

I still shoot a fair amount of black at the shop, mainly engine parts. Black Imron, mostly. Single stage epoxy enamel. *Most* of the painting I do is of 'rough' parts. Engine parts. The only really high-gloss finish item I end up doing are things like rocker covers, fan blades... things with large smooth areas. And it's VERY tough to eliminate texture (aka Orange Peel) on single stage paints. And some can be difficult to wet sand smooth afterwards. Generally, I end up willing to accept a bit of texture on engine parts or, if it's too rough, I'll scuff sand and spray again until I am happy with the depth and smoothness of the finish. It is possible to fine sand Imron and re-polish. Especially within a couple of days after shooting it when it's still soft.

But I don't have a magic bullet for you. Sprayed paint will have some texture in it.

That said, one of our guys at the shop has spent his career as a professional body guy and painter. He can lay on paint way better than I can. Where I would get texture, he gets smooth. Where I would get a run or a sag, he knows EXACTLY when to stop spraying. He has his technique and an eye for how the paint will go on that I simply don't have. And experience. Which is why... I don't paint things that require a really professional finish. Tried it. Not my thing.

Not much help, I am sure. But perhaps it may help you avoid tilting windmills... or inspire you to spend more time working on technique. Because I think that's the secret.

Cheers,

Sirhr

[billpedalino]

Well, I received the Copal Varnish and am ready to experiment (i.e.; ruin a $20.00 decal). For those who have used copal varnish for decals, did you coat the entire decal area and overlap slightly onto the painted surface or did you just coat the decal-to paint seam area?
Thanks...

[exeric]

Bill, I also use Nason black acrylic enamel. I like it very much and find it to be easy, and predictable to apply. Of course I use a wet look hardener, but I also use a bit more reducer than recommended so it will flow better. If your paint is too thick, it will tend to give you noticable orange peel. Temperature is also important. I see you live in the North East and that could be a problem if your environment is too cold.

I'm anxious to hear how you like the copal varnish as I haven't tried that yet. On original paint bikes (Indians in particular), I have seen the varnish cover, and overlap on decal edges, and pin stripes. In the Excelsior literature I've seen, they only refer to it as varnish, and they oven baked it, and hand rubbed it for finish.

[harleytoprock]

Bill, I overlap the decal edge by about 1/8" with the clear. Depending on the decal shape, I sometimes use fine line masking tape to mask a border. Its important that where one tape line cross over another, that a good seal is made so the the clear doesn't draw under the tape. I'll use my finger nail to push the tape down into the edge on the top crossing tape. Orange peel is all about temperature, reducer speed, viscosity of paint, amount of paint sprayed on and spray gun set up. Good fine atomization depends on gun quality, air pressure, nozzle size and fluid adjustment. Its a lot to experiment with but experience makes it easier. I also like to stay with the same paint product so that results become predictable. Keep trying and good luck!

[billpedalino]

Thanks to all.

Eric - If I understand your response correctly, the varnish covers the entire decal, or was applied only over the edges?

Thanks for the Nason information as well, although I'm using their 2K FullThane Urethane rather than the enamel. It's getting warmer here now, so temperature shouldn't be a problem. But thinning out the paint a little more with reducer seems like a good idea and I'm going to give it a try.

Harleytoprock - I agree about technique. I just have to teach myself how to spray these types of paints, how to recognize when its going on correctly and what adjustments need to be made if its not. I'm going to be taking copious notes on gun settings, atmospheric conditions, line pressure, paint mixtures, etc. etc. until I find what works. This is a lot of work just to spray black! Makes you really respect those who do this for a living and know how to apply those mirror-quality coatings...

I'll report back after the next free weekend I have for further experimentation.

[exeric]

Bill, you should cover the whole decal, and seal the edges. You know; I think I am also using the Nason Urethane, and I honestly don't know what pure enamel is, or if it is even still available. I do know that the paint originally used on our old bikes had a very high pigment content which is why it holds up so well, and could be applied so thin. I believe you can still get high pigment paint but it is expensive. Glasurit comes to mind.

[harleytoprock]

The auto enamel of the old days was called an Alkyd enamel.