Powerplus or Bust, Eh?

[kneesinthebreeze]

Hi Kevin
Thank you. by R Walker I meant Randy Walker. I believe he mentioned the usability of Ford Flathead pistons for
several Hendee/PowerPlus applications, but I don't have any specifics. If you email him, he may be able to clarify.
I have gotten some parts from Walker Machine and will be buying some items from Ziggy in CA, and visiting the several of the swapmeets you mentioned. Ill try to email you a list of the items i am seeking. Thanks and wishing you a blessed NEW Year !
Brad

[Shaky Jake]

I emailed Randy about pistons a while back, but he didn't offer any info, he just said he didn't have any. I think he stays pretty busy with the farm, so you have to email Jen with questions then she asks him, and sometimes something gets lost in the translation. I'm not complaining, it's better since Jen has been working there because before it would take weeks just to get a reply.

I'm definitely going to look into the Ford flathead thing though, it looks like the early flathead V8's had a 3 1/16 inch bore, but from what I can tell people overbore them as much as 1/8 inch, so pistons should be available in the bore size range that I'm looking for. The wrist pin height, or "compression distance" seems to vary from a little under 1.5 inches to a little over 1.5 inches on the aftermarket flathead pistons, I suppose depending on what compression ratio, combustion chamber volume, stroke, rod length, etc. that you're using. I guess I need to find a flathead Ford forum somewhere that can help me figure this out. One of my concerns though, is the weight difference between the cast iron pistons that came in the Powerplus, and the aluminum pistons that people are selling for the Fords. I didn't really want to do a bunch of balance modifications on my flywheels. We'll see what happens.

The other thing that I'm working on right now is roller bearings for the crankshaft. The one's that Randy Walker sent don't fit, they're too long. I found a local machinist that's done some old Harley Davidsons and he thinks he might be able to find me new rollers by size, so I'm planning to take some of my old ones over there on Friday to see if he can match them up with something. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it I guess.


It should be an interesting new year.



Kevin

.

[Tom Lovejoy]

I have been told vw pistons will work well ? will ask and get back to ya

[Shaky Jake]

I have been told vw pistons will work well ? will ask and get back to ya

Thanks Tom. That would be cool. I'll see if I can find some specs.


I've trying to post some pictures of my repaired cases, but my computer is going all Y2.015K on me or something. Maybe it will work tomorrow.



Kevin


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[Shaky Jake]

Case Repairs

Here are some pictures of the repairs that Joe at Joe's Machine in Omaha did on my engine cases.






The right side case used to look like this:




He machined off the jagged part of the break, but left as much of the original boss as he could, so the repair could still bear against the original casting. Then he made some aluminum sleeves and welded them in place of the material that he machined off. Now it looks like this:








The left side case used to look like this:




And now it looks like this:








That broken pressed in stud that used to look like this:




We decided to drill it out, tap it for 1/4 - 24, and seal weld it on the back side. Now it looks like this:




Here is the seal weld on the back side:








Joe has done welding and machining work for me on other bikes in the past, I've always been happy with what he's done for me. If anybody needs this kind of work done, I would recommend Joe. Here's a link to his website: http://www.joesmachineandwelding.com/






Kevin


.

[rbc]

For pistons try these folks - http://egge.com/

When I was doing my 1915 Yale they actually listed pistons for it in their 1995 catalog. There new catalog doesn't list motorcycle pistons but one of their many services is machining rough castings to your specs. I'm pretty sure a call to them could get you on the right track.

[Shaky Jake]

For pistons try these folks - http://egge.com/

When I was doing my 1915 Yale they actually listed pistons for it in their 1995 catalog. There new catalog doesn't list motorcycle pistons but one of their many services is machining rough castings to your specs. I'm pretty sure a call to them could get you on the right track.

Thanks rbc. I'll give them a try.




Kevin


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[Shaky Jake]

auxiliary fuel

I had to post this up. I threw a birthday party for my bride last Saturday. The house was full of people, some of them had heard about the old Indian in the basement, naturally the guys all wanted to see it. So I did a tour of my little shop in the basement. One of the guys asked me how much fuel the gas tank holds, and what the range would be (good questions). He said he had this giant pocket flask that he got as a gag gift, and he was thinking it would work nicely to carry in a back pack as an emergency gas can, and would I want it. I said why not. Here's a picture:







Kevin


.

[c.o.]

I know you're going to do a good job.

Looks like I was onto something eh?

You know Kevin, it was a tough one letting that bike go. I had often threatened to a perplexed wife that I would sell my Harley before I let that Indian get away from my grip. At any rate we know how it all worked out. It took me a day or two after getting back to the forum to spend the time it would take to catch up on your thread. I mean if it was good I was not going to quit until I caught up! Good thing I planned for it cuz... Damn, you are getting at it and doing a great job too!!! Nice score on the parts!!! You make it look awful easy to scrounge early motorsickle stuff. A primo muffler? Really???? Good for you man! I can't count the times I've kicked myself after you drove away and I'm really going to kick myself when you fire it up and ride it around with that laugh that Indian riders get. Having said that I'm going to have a big ol' grin on when you get it road worthy. That bike deserved to live with you.

[exeric]

I sure know how you feel Cory. The two most regrettable deals I've made were Indians. I still miss those bikes but I take pleasure in knowing both bikes found a good home. That does mean a lot because collectors with average incomes can't keep them all, and we have to let them go to pursue other things.

[Shaky Jake]

Looks like I was onto something eh?

You know Kevin, it was a tough one letting that bike go. I had often threatened to a perplexed wife that I would sell my Harley before I let that Indian get away from my grip. At any rate we know how it all worked out. It took me a day or two after getting back to the forum to spend the time it would take to catch up on your thread. I mean if it was good I was not going to quit until I caught up! Good thing I planned for it cuz... Damn, you are getting at it and doing a great job too!!! Nice score on the parts!!! You make it look awful easy to scrounge early motorsickle stuff. A primo muffler? Really???? Good for you man! I can't count the times I've kicked myself after you drove away and I'm really going to kick myself when you fire it up and ride it around with that laugh that Indian riders get. Having said that I'm going to have a big ol' grin on when you get it road worthy. That bike deserved to live with you.

Well it sure is good to hear from you Cory. If I ever have to let her go myself, I'll give you first dibbs. It's been quite a journey for me, being the steward of this piece of antiquity that you discovered. I'm a little behind on my posts, but I've tried to share that experience in this forum, not just keep it to myself.



Kevin


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[c.o.]

I sure know how you feel Cory. The two most regrettable deals I've made were Indians. I still miss those bikes but I take pleasure in knowing both bikes found a good home. That does mean a lot because collectors with average incomes can't keep them all, and we have to let them go to pursue other things.

You nailed it Eric. I had a few interested parties when I decided to sell. I got a good vibe from Kevin and I knew that he was going to follow through with what he said he was going to do. That was the primary reason that it went home with him.

Well it sure is good to hear from you Cory. If I ever have to let her go myself, I'll give you first dibbs. It's been quite a journey for me, being the steward of this piece of antiquity that you discovered. I'm a little behind on my posts, but I've tried to share that experience in this forum, not just keep it to myself.



Kevin


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Thanks for the dibbs thing Kevin but I'm sure you'll make it a keeper and that is all good too. Some folks score early stuff left right and center so I think I'm good for at least one more.... It's great the way you are documenting the process. I'm sure it will be referred to again and again by many an antique addict. You've shared a lot of useful information here. Keep up the good work!

[Shaky Jake]

Motor Plates and Other Interesting Things

When I got my bike, it had the front motor mount plates with it but not the rear, so at the Davenport swap meet last Labor day I bought a set of rear motor plates from a 1916 Powerplus. They didn't fit. They fit the motor, but the hole for the frame bolt was not in the right place, it was about one hole diameter short of lining up with the hole in the frame. What's more, my frame has lugs for two bolts, but the '16 motor plates have only one hole for a frame bolt. So I looked at a few pictures on the Google box, and I found that later Powerplus rear motor plates had two frame bolts, like my frame. I located a deal on a set of the later Powerplus motor plates on a popular internet auction site, thinking I must have the later frame design. But still, the holes don't line up. Here is a picture of a 1916 Powerplus rear motor plate (left) and a '17 or later rear motor plate (right). You'll also notice that the bottom hole on the '16 plate is larger, this is to accommodate the brake pedal shaft (more on this later).






Here is a picture with the '16 rear motor plate on top of the '17 or later rear motor plate. You can see that all the holes line up, except the newer one has the extra frame bolt hole, as I mentioned:






It was about then that I started to worry that maybe my frame had been damaged or modified in some way (a lot can happen in 99 years) and I was going to have to repair and/or un-modify it. I'd been swapping emails with Mr. Spacke2speed of the AMCA forum, and we finally figured out that I have an older frame, from a 1914 single speed Indian. Single speed because a transmission model would have had a lug on the backbone of the frame for the shifter. It all made sense now that my bike had a '14 front fender, that skip tooth chain, a '14 rear fender, and a '14 swingarm with lugs for a '14 rear stand. Matt Smith sells repop '14 motor plates on eBay, so I ordered up a set. The only thing I didn't know is whether the '14 rear plates, which are made to fit the Hedstrom motor, would also fit the Powerplus motor. If not, it just means I would have to make custom motor plates from scratch, which really wouldn't be that bad. Johnny Cash would be proud.




Long story short, the nice man from the USPS brought me the early motor plates, and the bolt holes lined up. Oh happy day. Here's a pic:






Here's a pic with the transmission installed:






If you look close, the rusty cap over the transmission detent, which is right between the two frame bolts, hits the new motor plate even though the transmission is not all the way forward. Here is a close-up:






If I want to have full range of adjustment of my primary chain, I'll need to remove a little material from the motor plate. So I made some pencil marks, clamped some pieces of scrap for guides, and got out my little plasma cutter:






After a little grinding and filing it looked pretty good:






On a 1916 Indian Powerplus, the brake pedal shaft is one of the case bolts, so that hole is bigger. I had to drill out the lower bolt hole on the right side rear motor plate to allow that brake pedal shaft to pass through. I noticed that neither the '16 rear motor plate, nor the '14 rear motor plate had much material around the lower case bolt hole for the brake pedal shaft to bear against, so I decided to reinforce it by welding on a washer. I reamed and filed the hole in the washer for a close fit on the shaft, so that when I stomp on the brakes most of the force of my size 11's will bear on the steel of the washer and motor plate, rather than the aluminum of the motor case. I did the same thing on the left side, just for good measure. I don't want to be welding up these cases again.




Here's a picture of the washers and the motor plates clamed to the engine case, so everything is lined up properly:






I tacked the washers in place with everything lined up, then I took the plates off of the case and securely welded the washers in place:






A little more filing and they'll be ready for nickel plating:






That's all for now. Next time I'll probably talk about pistons. I hope your day is going as well as mine.



Kevin


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[Shaky Jake]

I almost forgot to say happy National Kazoo Day!

http://www.nationalkazooday.com/



Kevin


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[c.o.]

Wow Kevin, I guess it takes a rip down and attempting the fitment of parts to figure out what the hell a guy has eh? Damn, I always wondered about the lack of a fender skirt on the front but never did it occur to me that the chassis could be earlier. Nice job on hopping the hurdle.