Powerplus or Bust, Eh?

[Shaky Jake]

Numbers

I don't know what these numbers stamped inside the Engine cases mean, but I thought I would record them here in case I want them later. They all match, so I assume that means that these left and right case halves and this timing cover originally came together:












Also stamped inside the left side case half is this little number 8:








And there are two little 8's on the outside of the right side case half on the automatic oiler housing:






Kevin

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[exeric]

Kevin, are you sure those matching numbers aren't 6996 . . . You don't have to say it.

[Shaky Jake]

I'm just glad it didn't say 666. Or 999 for that matter.

And were those 8's upside down?


Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

A century of crud

A lot of crud can accumulate in a century. After about a week of soaking in solvent, several gentle brushings, and scrubbing in hot soapy water, here are how the engine cases look:












Obviously, there is a bit more cleaning left to do. I feel like an archeologist; trying to brush away the layers of dirt but save what's left of the original finish. A little more time with the toothbrush, and maybe an hour or so in the dishwasher, and I'll have it. There are a few issues with the cases that need to be addressed, I'll post some pictures of that next time.




Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

Crankcase issues

So, as I said, there are some issues with the crankcase halves that need to be resolved. A lot can happen in a hundred years. Nothing unexpected, but they need to be addressed. Here are some pictures.




First, there are four mounting bosses that are broken, two on each half:








Second, one of the mounting studs for the primary chain guard is broken off:




There are two studs, here is the unbroken one:




They are pressed in from the inside:








Third, it looks like the magneto gear came loose at one time and wallowed out the aluminum around the hole where the magneto shaft passes through:










And finally, one of the cylinder hold-down studs is stripped:








The cylinder studs are available from Walker Machine, so I've ordered a set. I've taken the cases to a competent machinist/welder who has done some work for me in the past, to repair the broken mounting bosses. On the ones where a large part is missing, he'll fabricate a piece to weld on, and on the other ones he'll just build it up and re-machine. Depending on how well the old aluminum welds, we may also weld repair the hole where the magneto shaft passes through. It's very thin there, so if welding doesn't work out, I'll figure out another solution. On the broken primary cover stud, I haven't been able to find a replacement to press in, so we'll either fabricate a new one, or repair the old one by drilling through and attaching a new threaded piece by welding it on from the back side.


Next I'll start working on the crankshaft and cylinders. I'm currently gathering parts to rebuild the crankshaft, and I haven't done anything with the cylinders yet. For now, I'm a little uncomfortable that my crankcase halves are in someone else's shop. But I know Joe will do a good job. Sometimes you have to call in a specialist.




Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

Valves

I like to avoid changing the solvent in the parts washer in the middle of a project, for fear that I may have dropped some small but crucial part into the solvent, that would then get recycled and I would never know it until I need it. But, 100 years worth of crud generated an excess of gunk, so I changed the solvent today.


After that minor task was complete, I decided to see if my old Craftsman valve spring compressor (that I got in about 1975) would pop the keepers lose on those crusty old valves. I started with the rear cylinder, since the threaded valve covers had already been removed:








And sure enough, the intake valve keepers popped loose and everything came apart easy:








Then the exhaust valve. The keepers came easy, and the upper dust cover came off easy, but when I removed the perforated sleeve, the top half of the valve guide came with it. It was cracked in two, flush with the cylinder casting:








That must have made a racket when it was running. I think new (repop) guides are available, but the biggest problem is going to be removal of the rest of the guide, since they are threaded into the casting and the hex is on the part that broke off. I'll have to use some kind of an extractor. Could be hard, could be easy, time will tell.










The valves themselves didn't look that bad, I've seen worse. They looked to have plenty of meat left on the heads of the valves, but you never know until you re-face them, all it takes is one little pit to ruin one.








And if the stems were badly worn you'd be able to see a ridge right were my finger tip is. These don't look too bad; the micrometer will tell after I clean them up.








You can't tell it from the picture, but the valve seats are pretty worn. They may require inserts.








The threaded valve covers are pretty tight on the front cylinder, so I decided to soak them in Kroil overnight. They're a little beat up, so it's hard to get a good bite on them with the wrench. We'll se what happens.






Kevin

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[panthersteve]

That must have made a racket when it was running. I think new (repop) guides are available, but the biggest problem is going to be removal of the rest of the guide, since they are threaded into the casting and the hex is on the part that broke off. I'll have to use some kind of an extractor. Could be hard, could be easy, time will tell.

Kevin
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Hi Kevin

I had a similar problem on my P&M, both guides had been damaged and there was no way I could get them unscrewed so had to drill them. As the guide bores were worn I turned up some rods that were just the right size to slide into each guide and then set the barrel up in the mill using the rod in the guide to be able to set it up on centre. Drilled them out to the core diameter of the thread and the remainder of the guide threads fell out leaving an unmolested thread in the barrel.

Cheers
Steve

[Shaky Jake]

Hi Kevin

I had a similar problem on my P&M, both guides had been damaged and there was no way I could get them unscrewed so had to drill them. As the guide bores were worn I turned up some rods that were just the right size to slide into each guide and then set the barrel up in the mill using the rod in the guide to be able to set it up on centre. Drilled them out to the core diameter of the thread and the remainder of the guide threads fell out leaving an unmolested thread in the barrel.

Cheers
Steve

Thanks for the response, Steve. I didn't know what a P&M was, so I checked the Google-box and your video came up. Lovely restoration.

It is likely that I'll have to drill that guide out. I've had pretty good luck with left handed drill bits in the past. They tend to relieve the pressure on the threads, and usually the left hand rotation of the bit will thread it right out. I'll try an extractor first, after I clean the barrel up and soak the guide Kroil for a while. I don't like to put much force on an extractor though, because if the extractor breaks then you have a whole new problem. Don't ask me how I know!



Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

Valves - The Front Barrel

Next, to get the valves out of the front barrel I needed a 1-9/16 inch wrench to remove the valve caps. I motored up to Blair Pawn to see if they had one. They always have a good stock of tools, and even though they didn't have a 1-9/16 wrench that day, they did have this:








I know what you're thinking, it has a hammer on it, so it's probably more of a Harley-Davidson tool. Still, I gave it a go and it worked for me:










And out came the valves. Their condition was similar to the valves in the rear barrel, the only difference being that the spring on the exhaust valve had been replaced with two pieces of shorter springs:








Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

Book Recommendation

Nothing new to report today, I've just been cleaning old parts, looking for new parts, fixing toilets in the house, and moving dirt around in the yard. I just got a copy of Victor Page's book "Early Motorcycles, Construction, Operation, and Repair." What a great resource. I had heard about this one before, but never got around to ordering a copy. It's a reprint of the 1924 revision of a book that was first published in 1914. It's fairly detailed and technical, discussing everything from frame and sidecar design to design and maintenance of engines, ignitions, carburetors, wheels, and tires. It's basically a maintenance manual for early motorcycles. There's even a chapter called "Complete Instructions for Overhauling Engine." If your looking for a Christmas gift for a an old iron junky, this would be a good one. Sorry, I already have my copy, so you'll have to think of something else for me. It even has lots of pictures, you know, for the Harley guys.




Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

The good, the bad, and the ugly.

I thought I ought to throw a few words up, since it's been a while. I hope everyone had a blessed, safe, and happy Christmas. It's been pretty busy around here, and I've not had as much time as I'd like to work on the bike, but I've been blessed to have a lot of time with my family. We hosted Christmas dinner at our house this year, mom has been fighting cancer and just isn't up to it anymore. On top of that, my wife turned fifty (I know, I'm a cradle robber) and I'm putting together a celebration for that. Also, whenever the weather has been nice enough, I've felt like going outside and cutting Jeep / Dirt Bike trails in the woods rather than hanging out in the shop. And I've been knocking some trees down and moving dirt around so I can put in a new storage shed. No complaints, but circumstances have conspired to keep me from working on the Indian much.

All that aside, I have found a little time to fiddle with the Indian. The good news in that the welder called today and my cases are done. I'm looking forward to picking them up tomorrow. And I've talked to a local metal-plater about nickel plating some parts for me, and I'm feeling OK about that. It might just be me, but I've spent so much time and effort finding these parts that I'm a little nervous about dropping them off somewhere and walking away. This guy seems trustworthy though.

I've been spending quite a bit of time looking for pistons. There aren't any. If I'm wrong, please let me know. I have four viable original pistons, with little wear. All four are standard size. My cylinders have about 0.008 to 0.009+ inches taper in them. The engine would run with that for a while, but I don't want to leave them that way for the cannonball. So that leaves me a couple of options; find oversized original or repop Indian pistons and bore the cylinders to fit, sleeve the cylinders to fit the standard pistons that I have, or find new pistons from another vehicle that are commercially available and can be made to fit. I've contacted all of the Indian parts reproducers that I know and asked about pistons, and nobody is reproducing them right now. One guy says that he may make a small batch next year, and one guy says he may make some rings in January. Again, if you know of anybody, please let me know, but for now anyway it doesn't seem like I'm going to be able to obtain original or reproduction Indian pistons, at least in the short term. Sleeving back to standard bore seems like a potentially good option, so I'm going to explore that further. And tomorrow I'm going to start looking around for pistons from other vehicles, by size. The bore is 3 1/8 inch, the wrist pin centerline is 1.5 inches from the crown of the piston. The wrist pins are 5/8 inch diameter, but bushings could be made to accommodate anything close to that. If you know of anything like that, sing out.

For rebuilding my crankshaft, I've gotten new taper shafts, crankpin, new lock washers, and almost enough new nuts from Walker Machine. I'm having trouble finding bearing rollers and bearing retainers though. The ones that are available are larger than mine. So the search for bearings goes on. I'll post some pictures when I get a chance.

One thing that I haven't started on yet are the cam followers and lifters. Some of the followers had been worn enough that someone in the distant past brazed them to build them up. Again, I'll post some pictures when I get a chance. I need to find someone who can hard-face them and re-grind them for me. I know there are people out there who do that, if you have any recommendations please speak up.

Another good thing is that I emailed Lonnie Isam, the organizer of the Cannonball, about my intentions, and he said he would put me on the list for 2016. They've announced that it's going to be 1916 and older bikes only, and they're going to pick a route that is more suitable for 40 mph machines with small brakes. That makes me happy.

That's all for now, I wish you and yours all the best in the coming year.


Kevin

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[kneesinthebreeze]

Hello Kevin. I just recently discovered your excellent documentation here and want to thank you for your diligence and consideration in sharing your work. I have learned a lot from what I've seen so far of your build-blog.
I also am building a 1916 PowerPlus for MC-CB 2016 and am looking for some chassis/controls/hubs/oil tank components.
I'd be pleased to talk with you sometime. In meanwhile, Ill try to add some value with a contribution or two of my own.
Best wishes for a wonderful New Year.
Brad
1916 PowerPlus
1941 'Four / sidecar
1940 Chief
1952 Velocette
2004 R1150RT

[kneesinthebreeze]

Hi Kevin,
Have you asked R Walker about Ford Flathead pistons ?

[kneesinthebreeze]

Hello Kevin. Once again, thank you for sharing your discoveries and thoughts. Several points you raise may be common knowledge for some, not for me.
In German it is said: "leider, sind wir zu fruh alt, und zu spaet klug" - "unfortunately, we are too soon old and too late smart". Your posts are practical & motivating. I'm making some progress. Brad.

[Shaky Jake]

Hi Kevin,
Have you asked R Walker about Ford Flathead pistons ?

No I haven't, but after reading your post I looked at some flathead Ford specs, and you may have something there. I don't know who R Walker is, do you have contact information or a website?

As far as chassis parts and controls, Ziggy Kapuscinski has been a good source for me. He may have some repop hubs too, or know where to get them. For things like new wheel bearings, cups, and cones, I've gotten most of mine from Walker Machine. Also Matt Smith in Oregon is reproducing some stuff and sells it on ebay (boardtracker) and at swap meets. There are a few other parts sources, I could probably compile a list of what I know if you need it. The '16 and later wheel hubs have replaceable cups, sometimes you can find the hubs used. Either way, they're expensive. I think hubs from a Harley Davidson J could be possibly made to work. I got my oil tank used at a swap meet. The AMCA swap meets that have been good for me are Wauseon OH and Davenport, IA. I usually go to the one in St. Paul, MN too. I've heard that Oley PA, Dixon CA, Denton NC, and Rhinebeck NY are good, but I haven't made it to them due to work or other conflicts. I like to go to the AMA swap meet in Lexington, OH too, just because it's fun, but I've never found any Indian parts there. I hope that helps, if you need any contact info or anything let me know.


Kevin

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