Powerplus or Bust, Eh?

[Shaky Jake]

I'm pretty sure that skip tooth chain was a cobble job. The funny thing is that the sprocket fits the rear hub, which I'm sure is Indian. I'm not sure if the sprocket was custom made or what. It doesn't have enough teeth on it to work well, I don't think. According to the Indian parts book the chain should be 3/8 wide by 5/8 pitch. Repop sprockets are plentiful.

A couple of people have told me that the sidecar frame is a Rogers, and that seems possible. I also know that there is some relationship between Rogers and National Dairy, and I know that there is a thread on this forum where someone posted some pictures of a National Dairy sidecar that looked like mine. That all happened when Cory owned it, and all of the pictures have disappeared from the thread, so I have never seen them. The closest pictures I can find are of Harley Davidson tubs, as Robert said, although there are some differences in the shape, the front of mine is a bit narrower and the door on mine isn't slanted. One guy at Wauseon was pretty sure that the footrest in my sidecar was made by Flexi. Also note the way the axle mounts to be adjustable to fit the wheel ruts.

So, I appreciate all the input on the sidecar. For me, until I see a picture of one that can be identified, and that looks just like mine, it's still a mystery to me. I suspect it's a Rogers frame, or maybe National, but the tub? Variation on a Harley? Rogers? National? Flexi? I don't know. The best answer for me would be Harley Davidson, because then it would be worth some money.

Thanks again!

Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

More Sidecar Pictures

If anyone is interested, here is a link to a gallery of pictures of my sidecar.

http://knaser.smugmug.com/Motorcycle...3637410_w9DZzv

Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

skip-tooth chain and sprocket

I'm very interested in that chain. I've never heard of or seen a skip tooth drive chain on an early motorcycle. Plenty on bicycles but not motorcycles. Early chains were very thin and are impossible to find, but skip tooth?? Wow. Please advise if you find literature. Thanks, Paul Venne 1914 Excelsior Model TS.

Paul,

I took a closer look at the skip-tooth chain and sprocket. The sprocket it definitely "custom." You can see where two dogs have been brazed to it to make it fit the Indian hub. I can also see that the ID of the sprocket has been filed out to fit the hub. The master link f the chain has been soldered on. Like I said, the sprocket is way to small to work with a motor anywhere but the Bonneville salt flats.

Here are some pictures of the skip tooth chain and sprocket, and a new repop 36 tooth sprocket. The 1916 Indian parts book lists a 36 tooth and a 40 tooth.






Kevin


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[Scott Parker]

This first two photos are of a reproduction Harley tub. The last two are a Rodgers car...sorry I don't the years.

[Shaky Jake]

Davenport

Thanks for the pictures Scott. I'm going to have to spend some more time figuring out that sidecar.


In spite of getting hammered with rain, Davenport has already been a success for me. I've already found most of what I was looking for. I'd post some pictures, but there's no WiFi and the pictures won't load over cell.

Get this, I found an original 1916 Indian muffler that is complete and in very good condition. How can that even still exist? I got an original oil tank with hand pump, I got my rear engine mount plates, and most of my shifter parts. I would have been satisfied to leave here with any one of those four things, but I found all four. I also found out that the front hub I've been working on is earlier than '16 and that's why it doesn't have replaceable cups. But - I found an original 1916 front hub, and and it even has one good cup in it. Other than that, I got an old tool box, the one that sits on top of the gas tank. I think it's earlier than '16 and it's pretty roached, but hey, it was only 20 bucks and I should be able to do something with it. It was the only cheap thing I bought today. That's about it other than some miscellaneous wheel and clutch parts. All in all, a good haul. Maybe more tomorrow.

I can't believe I got that muffler. I was already scheming on how I could cobble up a tractor muffler or something.

And I met a couple of guys, one from this forum and one from the Advrider forum. It's always cool to be able to put a face with the screen name.

It's time to celebrate with a bit of single malt whiskey, from the isle of Islay. :wink:


Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

Sorry for the long delay between posts. I'm on the road, working. I've got to pay for this stuff somehow. Here are some of the parts I found in Davenport, IA:

The muffler:






Here's the oil tank with the hand pump:






This picture has the tool box in the upper left, it's pretty crusty but it was only $20. On top of the tool box is the rear fender brace I needed. Bottom left is a proper Powerplus front hub, the one on my bike is from an earlier model year. To the right of that is the shifter and associated lnkage, and on the far right are the rear engine mount plates:






That's it for now, when I get a few minutes, I'll post some pictures of building the wheels, etc.


Kevin

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[exeric]

That was a good Davenport trip Kevin. I went to Davenport with a friend back in the mid 90s and he only had enough money to pay for the trip. However; he brought a PowerPlus muffler, gas tanks, and a transmission. He made enough money in the first hour he was there to buy other parts he needed, and had money when he got home. Mufflers are about as scarce as a part can be for old motorcycles. Glad you were so lucky.

[Shaky Jake]

Backing up a little bit, here are some pictures of working on the rear wheel, before going to Davenport. The old bearing cups were pitted so I knocked them out with a piece of brass and a BFH:






I started the new cups in with a lead mallet, so as not to ding the edges:






Then I used the brass drift to tap them down against the shoulder:






They go in past flush, as you can see:






I spent some time with a thread file making sure that the sprocket lock nut and the brake drum lock nut would go on smoothly. Then I cleaned everything up good, slipped the brake drum onto the splines, secured it with the lock nut, put some grease in the cups, and stuck the balls in place in the cup:








Then I threaded the stationary cone and the brake backing plate onto the shouldered end of the hollow axle:






And I slipped the hollow axle through the hub until the internal brake shoes went inside the drum:






Then I flipped the wheel over, greased up the cup on the sprocket side, stuck the balls in place, and threaded the adjustable cone onto the hollow axle:








Cheers until next time when I'll probably talk about the rear wheel rim and spokes.

Kevin

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[Tom Lovejoy]

Kevin is your brake drum new? it looks perfect.

[Shaky Jake]

Kevin is your brake drum new? it looks perfect.

Yes - I got it from Ziggy Kapuscinski

Kevin

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[Shaky Jake]

Rear Wheel Rim & Spokes

The tube side of the rear rim was pretty rusty, but it seemed to be structurally sound:






I bead blasted the tube side and the edges of the rim, but I left the crusty old paint on the spoke side of the rim intact:






Then I put it on the truing stand. It wasn't too bad, for a hundred year old hoop with several broken spokes:





I soaked the spoke nipples up good with some Kroil so I could adjust them, and I replaced all the broken spokes with ones that I had saved from the spare wheel:








Then I trued it up as best I could:








After that, I primed the bare metal, rattle canned it with primer and red Rustoleum paint, and set it aside to dry. Oddly enough, the rustoleum matched the crusty old Indian paint perfectly. I should have taken a picture.



Kevin

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[fciron]

Shhh, don't tell people about the alternative uses of red oxide primer. I use it as part of my faux-rust finish on furniture.

[Shaky Jake]

Clincher Tires

I had never mounted a clincher tire before this one. To be honest, I really didn't know exactly what a clincher tire was, so I had to do a little research. It turns out that clinchers differ from modern tires in that they don't have a wire in the bead. Since modern tires have a wire in the bead the bead won't stretch, so modern wheels have a drop center. When you mount a modern tire you drop the bead on one side of the tire into the drop center of the wheel, so you can pull the bead over the rim on the other side of the wheel. Since clincher tires don't have the wire bead they stretch, so you just stretch them over the rim to mount them. The rim has a hook around each side of the circumference that the tire clinches on to, after you put air in it.

The advantage of modern tires is, if you have a flat they are more likely to stay on the rim until you get stopped, because the wire in the bead holds it onto the rim. That's why they used to call them safety tires. The clincher tires need air pressure on them to keep the bead of the tire under the hook of the rim. When a clincher losses air pressure it immediately comes dismounted from the rim, and tears **** up.

There are several sites out there that talk about how mount clincher tires, for old cars and motorcycles, there's really no difference between the two as far as clincher tires go. I've mounted a lot of motorcycle tires, but all of the information that I read made it sound like it was going to be more difficult to mount the clinchers. Some people talk about putting the tire on the roof of a house on a warm day to soften it up, which seems like a good idea if you can do it. Most everybody seems to agree that you need to use some soap or tire lube, but some folks use a plastic bag between the tire and rim to help it slide on. Other than that, there are differing opinions about how to stretch the tire over the rim.

When I got around to mounting my rear tire it was fairly late in the evening and the sun was down, and I hadn't planned ahead enough to put the tire up on the roof. I felt like getting it done because I was already loading the trailer to head for the Davenport, IA swap meet, so I decided to just give it a try cold. I got out my long tire irons, and I went to the kitchen and stole some dish soap for lubricant. I sat the wheel on the concrete floor and blocked the rim up with wood so the hub wasn't touching. I dusted the inside of the rim with some talcum powder (standard practice on a tube tire). I put the tube inside the tire with a small amount of air in it so it would hold it's shape, and I slickered up the bead of the tire with the soap. Then I just lined up the valve stem with the hole in the rim and started that part of the tire over the rim first so I could pushed the valve stem through the hole. After that, it was just a matter of using my hands and my weight to stretch the tire over the rim. I found that I didn't even need the tire irons. If there was a trick to it, it was to take your time (like everything else I've ever done). Just put your weight on the tire and wait for it to stretch over the rim. It takes as long as it takes, don't try to hurry. In the end, the clinchers were easier to mount than most modern motorcycle tires, in my opinion.







Kevin

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[painterdale]

Kevin, great progress! I am at the point with my 17 Powerplus that I want to get some tires on it, too, so I am following your posts with great interest. The front rim is not serviceable so I have had the spokes and nipples soaking in Kroil for a few weeks (not a real ambitious project) and I am gingerly trying to break them loose. So far I have had limited success. I would like to save the spokes if possible. I assume from looking at yours and mine that the nipples are brass. Are the nipples plated originally or unplated? What kind of tire and tube did you go with? Are there sources for reproduction rims out there? Dale

[Shaky Jake]

Kevin, great progress! I am at the point with my 17 Powerplus that I want to get some tires on it, too, so I am following your posts with great interest. The front rim is not serviceable so I have had the spokes and nipples soaking in Kroil for a few weeks (not a real ambitious project) and I am gingerly trying to break them loose. So far I have had limited success. I would like to save the spokes if possible. I assume from looking at yours and mine that the nipples are brass. Are the nipples plated originally or unplated? What kind of tire and tube did you go with? Are there sources for reproduction rims out there? Dale

Dale,

Yes, the nipples appear to be brass with nickle plating, although most of the nickle is gone from mine. I got the tire and tube from Coker, but I'm on the road and I don't have the model or part numbers with me. Likewise, I do have the name of a source for repop rims, but I don't have it with me. I'll be home in a couple of weeks and I'll try to remember to send you the info.

When I was removing and/or adjusting spokes, I found it helped to hold the spoke with a pair of pliers or vise grips right next to the nipple, while I turned the nipple with a spoke wrench. That way I could put more torque on the nipple without twisting the spokes. Sometimes it left a mark on the spoke, but at least I was able to save some of them. On a few, I took a heavy piece of steel and put it against the nipple, and then rapped on the other side of the nipple with a small hammer and that seemed to break them lose. I suppose you could try some heat too. Anyway, good luck with them. If you can't save the spokes, Ziggy sells new ones, but they're stainless steel. I'm planning to build a spare set of wheels using the SS spokes and new rims on original hubs.


Kevin

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