Restoration of a Bosch ZEV magneto

[10E]

Bosch ZEV
Thanks for the advise on the the grease. I'm going to stay away from the grease issue, but I must say I forgot to mention. I believe Joe said " they use dielectric grease in aircraft mags" A far more critical use than motorcycle mags.

I've entered two of the past Cannonball Runs and found that just about all of the riders strive to get a perfect score and I can see you seem to be heading in the same direction should you manage to get a bike together. (I hope you do) The Cannonball Run is a great event for those who want to test themselves and their machine and enjoy every type of geography and weather.
Whilst not without personalty issues, it's been my experience that friendships and the feeling of comradeship are formed during the event that leave one hungry for more of the same. Of course, there is a lot mayhem at times, but that just part of the run.

Thoughts on the butler and chef scenario.
Because this is a timed event and there are rules to take into account and keeping in mind the above comments, I would lose the butler, any help by your crew on the route has a points penalty, worse still, if your chef served alcohol with your meal and you happened to be in Utah or any other state for that matter, you could receive a traffic citation, and points penalty, from Loni, no alcohol allowed during the timed parts of the days event, another points penalty, there goes the perfect score. If one is interested in that. Enough of the John Cleese stuff.

Getting close to putting something together in regard back-up system.
Will post when something is working.
Joe's cobbling sometimes is the only option at the time, (it as been working for 2 years) , similar to the Lunar modular that had great trouble but after some cobbling managed to make it back to our planet with it's occupants.
Thank you again for you input in helping us keep our motorcycles running.
Victor Boocock 10E

[BoschZEV]

I'm going to stay away from the grease issue, but I must say I forgot to mention. I believe Joe said " they use dielectric grease in aircraft mags" A far more critical use than motorcycle mags.

I agree, it's best to tiptoe around the grease issue since discussion of lubricants tends to bring out strong opinions. But, while aircraft magnetos indeed are more critical, it's worth pointing out significant grease-related differences. Modern aircraft magnetos use a different type of bearing than our old rotating armature ones do, their internals are specially designed with small gaps everywhere to eliminate the corona breakdown that the reduced pressure at altitude otherwise would bring on, and for the same reason the grease they use also needs to have low electrical conductivity. But, that doesn't mean it is the silicone compound commonly sold as "dielectric grease."

As an aside, the corona breakdown problem at altitude is an extremely serious for aircraft magnetos. Precisely because of this in WWII Bendix invented what they called a "low tension" system that separated a magneto into its major components in order to place the high tension coils as close as possible to the spark plugs. If you're familiar with the Lucas "ET" (energy transfer) system of the 1960s used on BSA and Triumph competition machines, it's the same "low tension" magneto layout as used on Pratt & Whitney Double Wasp engines (Corsair, Hellcat, Thunderbolt, …).

Thoughts on the butler and chef scenario...

But, more distressing than the issue of grease, you now tell me I have to leave my butler and liquor cabinet behind. This is very troubling; I'll have to rethink this whole Cannonball thing…

Will post when something is working.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you work out.

[BoschZEV]

On September 22 I wrote:

...the cutoff for the next Cannonball will be bikes at least 100-years old (pre-1916) so having a reliable magneto will be essential for the success or failure of most of those machines. This has seeded an idea, although one that clearly has flaws. ...While I don't have any interest whatever in rebuilding magnetos as a business, how about doing so in trade for enough parts and components for me to piece together my own pre-'16 Frankenbike to ride in the next Cannonball?

...if no one stumbles across this thread and takes me up on this idea in the next few months (or proposes something better), time will have run out.

Four months have passed and it's time to call 'time' on my idea/offer. I would have just let it drop but today a very persistent person who managed to find my name, and from that my phone number at work, called about rebuilding his magneto. This guy has an entry in the Cannonball and learned of me from a friend who read this thread on the forum. He's actually the third person who has contacted me, the first two offering "merely" money, not old motorcycle parts. This guy has parts. Unfortunately, there's not enough of them to build a complete bike so more scrounging would be required but, even more importantly, entries already have closed for the next Cannonball.

Oh well, it was an idea whose time I hoped had come (but now has gone...).

[10E]

Bosch ZEV
I wouldn't give up hope as regards entering the Cannonball, there will be a reserve list I'm sure, and though it may be full we out here think there will be a good few who will not either get a bike or will not get it together in time. If you are a gambling man I would get your name in there and take a chance.
Besides, I have just completed bench testing the total loss system as discussed earlier in this thread.
It appears to work ok. The ultimate test will be to test it on the bike.
As it stands the mag used on the bench test did not produce a spark, the armature turned freely. An electric motor was used to drive the magneto at approx. 2000rpm engine speed. Two wet cell batteries and one lithium battery were tested. It appears that a 10 amp/hour battery will give 8 to 10 hours of spark, allowing one to loose spark at the days start and still run a 300 mile day with the conversion.
If the system is set up on the bike prior to the run Battery,Coil, Condenser, HT leads, then all one as to do is remove the old points assembly install the new assembly with the isolation in place and connect battery and off you go. About 5 mins switch out.
I have video and photos of the test, if I can get somebody to post it for me.
The credit for this idea (if I've done it correctly) goes to Joe Gimpel, a Cannonballer from Florida.
regards
Victor Boocock 10E

Four months have passed and it's time to call 'time' on my idea/offer. I would have just let it drop but today a very persistent person who managed to find my name, and from that my phone number at work, called about rebuilding his magneto. This guy has an entry in the Cannonball and learned of me from a friend who read this thread on the forum. He's actually the third person who has contacted me, the first two offering "merely" money, not old motorcycle parts. This guy has parts. Unfortunately, there's not enough of them to build a complete bike so more scrounging would be required but, even more importantly, entries already have closed for the next Cannonball.

Oh well, it was an idea whose time I hoped had come (but now has gone...).[/QUOTE]

[BoschZEV]

If you are a gambling man I would get your name in there and take a chance.

I appreciate the advice, but even with a provisional entry I would need all the parts for an appropriate bike in a bunch of boxes sitting on my garage floor many months before the start.

all one as to do is remove the old points assembly install the new assembly with the isolation in place and connect battery and off you go... The credit for this idea (if I've done it correctly) goes to Joe Gimpel,

I'll be very interested in seeing how Joe dealt with the issue of the rotating points. A carbon brush?

[BoschZEV]

I'll be very interested in seeing how Joe dealt with the issue of the rotating points. A carbon brush?

10E, do you have any progress to report on your rotating points replacement assembly?

[10E]

10E, do you have any progress to report on your rotating points replacement assembly?

Bosch zev
Yes I do. A short video that shows a working set up
As soon as I can figure a way to get it from IPhone
To computer I will email it to you for comments
Victor. 10e

[10E]

Bosch ZEV
I didn't reply sooner to your question because there was a problem getting on the website
The administrator finally fixed it.
Sent a private message, but no response from you, trust all is ok
10e

[BoschZEV]

Sent a private message, but no response from you, trust all is ok

Everything is great with me, but maybe not with this site. I just checked my 'in' box but found no messages from you since the ones we exchanged last fall.

[10E]

Bosch
I guess the site as had some problems, I'm still working out the video for the broken mag fix.
Off to UK tomorrow so can't do anything till I return in a week .
Will try to get video up upon return.
10e

[BoschZEV]

For those who are interested I just updated my magneto restoration thread on another site with details of a Lucas KNC1 "Competition" magneto that I just finished rebuilding:

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbth...790#Post608790

[BoschZEV]

For those who are interested in 1960s British motorcycles I just updated my magneto restoration thread on the BritBike Forum site with details of a test I ran on a Zener diode and an explanation why they work as a reasonable voltage regulator:

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbth...960#Post630960

I'm pleased to note that in just two years this BoschZEV thread received more views than any other in the 'Electrical' section, and is now nearly 20% ahead of the one in second place that has been here for eight years. Not because it's a race, because it isn't, but because it's gratifying to know so many AMCA members are interested in the topic. Hence, I intend to keep adding to the thread.

As noted in the Zener post my reason for testing this component is because I've designed a complex multi-function test instrument and the Zener will be one of the components in it. On a related note, it happens I will be in Australia in a few months (for professional reasons) and a group of motorcycle clubs is taking advantage of that to have me speak on the topic. Such is the interest in learning about a device that recently celebrated its 100th birthday.

[BoschZEV]

Since it is closely related to the subject of this thread, at the following is the first of four posts giving the results of a series of electrical tests I ran on two Dixie magneto coils for a bike being prepared to run in the upcoming Cannonball:

http://www.antiquemotorcycle.org/bbo...585#post155585

[BoschZEV]

For those interested in British motorcycles I just posted another update to the magneto restoration thread, this time on the Lucas Magdyno:

http://www.britbike.com/forums/ubbth...835#Post653835

[TechNoir]

Re: Lucas Magdyno

Hi BoschZEV, thanks for the link.

I have been following one or two of your other posts about magneto's with interest. This latest one piqued my interest because my pre war Speed Twin has a Lucas MO1 Magdyno. (I had mine rebuilt by Tony Cooper in the UK.). I particularly like the level of detail that you show, it really helps the likes of me appreciate the work and the investment in equipment that people like yourself put into these Mag rebuilds.

Thanks and please keep it up.

John