Attracting younger people

[RichO]

Peter I remember Smitty climbing Bothurd (spelling) Pass in the Rockies on his 1915 Indian Twin in 1987 when the motor stuck half way up. He waited till it cooled down then rode it up over the top. No small feat. Two grand gentlemen in your photo. Us "kid's" amused them to no end!

[T. Cotten]

Of course you do Tom... Sorry you have had BAD experiences with some people and situations but don'[t paint us all with the same brush...

Please do not put words in my mouth, Rich.

I haven't testified to any "BAD experiences" of my own; Please quote me where I'm wrong.

The loss of my Chapter was confusing at first.

But the only Meet within reach only got better.

....Cotten

[chuckthebeatertruck]

Whoa back up the bus Chuck! I don't know who you've run into but I've been a member for 40 years and in our chapter since a couple of months after it's founding 40 years ago and I haven't met the people your talking about.

I've been on almost 40 National road runs all over this country and have never seen what you and your wife have experienced. It simply wouldn't be accepted.

I'm not at all disputing your experience -- but I can share I was literally told to move my wife's "piece of **** sportster" from a parking spot at the Driftless Chapter Road Run in September 2022. I was told several times sportsters weren't welcome -- by the same people who then went and talked to a rider on a NEW Indian. Yes, a NEW Indian was on our "vintage" ride and welcome -- but not my wife's 1967 XLH.

I was then told by others I had to park my Guzzi with the "other Guzzi's" because my bike wasn't welcome with "real" motorcycles. When I pointed out that there was no assigned parking -- a group of pan riders literally told me that if I didn't move my bike that it "might not be there in the morning." I'm not joking in the least. All of those jokers were buddy buddy with our national directors wearing their shirts.

That road run was just a friggin disaster for my wife and I. My trailer was made fun of -- my car was made fun of -- and not in a friendly "take it and give it" sorta way that you guys are talking about. It was openly hostile to the point my wife asked if we could leave early and I had to talk her down. She wouldn't even ride pillion because of the openly hostile attitude we were shown by so many people on that road run. It was a really, really shitty experience and she was in tears at breakfast on our last day, which more or less ruined my experience too.

The only people who were even a bit nice to us were the folks from my chapter, plus the Olsen's. Otherwise, it was nothing but harasment or an openly hostile "who are you" attitude from the moment I unloaded until the moment we left. Problem was compounded by my chapter falling into cliques. Folks were texting each other and setting up things -- but not involving all chapter members present. It left my wife with a very, very bad taste in her mouth and she asked several times why we pay dues to a chapter that isn't including us. I understand it was about friends doing things with friends . . .but you can't make any new friends if you exclude your newer chapter members from your insider information.

I really talked it up to my wife and we were really looking forward to the road run together. Instead, we ran into a LOT of complete and total a$$holes who ruined the AMCA for my newbie wife and pretty made sure I won't be attending any more road runs because my wife won't support me taking the time off and spending the money to attend.

thank you Rich for being a straight up guy in our interactions, and for the invite. I have had great experiences with our Rocky Mountain Chapter (now headed by a good buddy of mine) and have a couple of buddies in the evergreen chapter. It truly seems the folks west of the mississippi are WAY nicer and more welcoming than the folks east of the river.

[chuckthebeatertruck]

I debated whether I'd share my experience because I expected exactly the sort of replies on this thread telling me it is isolated incidents.

Please know I understand others are relaying your experiences joining the AMCA 30 to 40 years ago and the great friendships you've made. I expected the same in joining and in joining a chapter.

Over the past several years I've introduced myself to a lot of people and tried very hard to become an active AMCA member. I've written articles for our chapter newsletter, offered to do pro bono work for the club (I am a professional museum administrator and fundraiser), shared on this site, and the list goes on. Despite constantly trying -- pretty much no one gives me time of day and pretty much all I run into are hostile attitudes towards the bikes I enjoy.

My observation is that unless you're part of an established clique in a chapter -- you're invisible and don't have the great experiences relayed here by older members. And, it ain't easy to get into one of the chapter cliques, either.

My reality has been very different from the "good old days" and it is only because of my thick skin and eternal optimism I remain a member.

But please understand there a LOT of people under the age of 50 into vintage bikes. There's a reason they don't join.

I'd kill to have the experience RichO is explaining about his chapter. It is 180 opposite of what I've experienced.

[exeric]

My first AMCA meet was the Maguire Field meet at Winter Garden, Florida, circa 1976. I was 24 years old with long hair and met Bud Cox, and Bob McClean who both urged me to join the AMCA. I have never experienced the motorcycle snobbery mentioned by some, but have met more than a few first class jerks, and obnoxiousness is in their DNA. You'll find that attitude in every part of the world, and throughout our journeys in life- - - Not just the AMCA. Older members have always been profoundly helpful to me and are the reason I have been personally successful in this hobby. I have always been as helpful and generous to new, and younger members but my attitude to attracting new members has always been the same. You can't make someone love old motorcycles, or bribe them into joining the AMCA. If that love for old motorcycles is in them, they will become AMCA members.

[exeric]

I have 2 chapter stories that I find amusing in retrospect. I had a 1961 Corvette and a fellow Corvette owner at work suggested I join the regional chapter. I went to my first meeting and the only person that spoke to me said my car was too old for their kind of club. My 2nd chapter story was my first meeting at a new Florida chapter. I brought my (not running) '11 Merkel so there would be something to look at, and talk about. The only members that took the time to look at it thought it was a historical joke and picked it apart like buzzards dining on road-kill (yet they joined an antique motorcycle club). So, I understand the disgust with hobbyist elites, and club cliques that are counter productive by their very existence. I've always contended that most hobbies are a lonely pursuit and that clubs should be the remedy by supporting, and getting like minded people together; however clubs, and their chapters are also the haven for ego maniacs, and petty dictators. I think that has always been true, and will continue as long as people are involved. I think each person has to define their involvement, and tolerance for the culture of any club.

[RichO]

Chuck I'm truly sorry for the way you and your wife have been treated. Our chapter embraces every new member like their family because they are and it's how we survive as a chapter. Or members ride everything under the sun. Our past president's son rides my old chopped rigid framed Sportster I bought new over 35 years ago. It still makes me smile every time he rides by. I hope you and your wife experience far better treatment in the future. Jerks are jerks and are not to be tolerated, period!

[chuckthebeatertruck]

A buddy asked me last night why i “exageratted” my amca negative experiences. To help illustrate i’m not joking about the bs hostility i’ve encountered, here’s a story with pics.

i helped a buddy rebuild his 1960 stroked sportster. he was sooooo happy with his bike i convinced him we should ride some old strokers around a meet. We got thumbs up from the sportster crowd and $hit from everyone else.

We were so well loved by welcoming amca members looking to mentor and latch onto young guys that some asshat stuffed a roll of paper towels in his gas tank to say welcome to the club.

Made the bike stall out. it’s a magneto fired bike. had it not been discovered before we left at night, an accident would have been likely. Not real “friendly” in my world to mess with another dudes scooter. real pita to dig them out.

photographic evidence attached.

No chance of my buddy becoming an amca member now. won’t ever be back to a meet after that bs.

i also had someone deliberately move my guzzi a couple aisles over at another meet “for fun.” It was a bitch to find my bike and i seriously thought it was stolen. i rode to the meet and all my stuff was with my bike. the suspect who did it is unknown to me but was arm and arm with Keith Keizer. real welcoming to have a stranger do that to another guys scooter.


like i said, i have a thick skin.

but if anyone thinks the average under 50 or under 40 will put up with this, you’re nuts. i’ve never had this sorta crap happen with british or italian bike groups. it’s only amca.

[chuckthebeatertruck]

And, i want to clarify i have zero issues with my chapter. It’s hard to break into established groups of friends. I know this from long experience and was prepared for it to take several years to become part of a group where i had no existing relationships. again, most folks in my age group and younger don’t want to attend stuff for years before people move from remembering your face, to remembering your name, to inviting you as a buddy.

My wife expected the ladies in the chapter to adopt her a bit more. She had no luck at our winter meet striking up convo and relationships. people naturally moved into groups and it is not easy to just walk up and break into other peoples circle of conversation, especially for women. She thought all the talk about AMCA latching onto lady riders was real. her experience has been anything but that and after more than two years of trying, she’s close to done trying. Best convo she had was with the husband of a chapter guest! This isn’t anyone’s fault. people are people. However, unless chapters make a concerted effort to latch onto new members, they will stop coming within a meeting or two. New folks walking into a sea of strangers sorta need a “probation officer” who makes sure they actually meet people and feel part of the group. Otherwise, you get a handshake and a few hours by yourself wondering how to break in when no one includes you in their convo because they are talking exclusively to old friends.

similarly, i tried four times over two years to join the chapter close to me. Crickets chirp louder. so i joined a chapter north of me and drive or ride a minimum of three hours each way to attend chapter activities. when you have to work that hard to join a chapter and then need to spend a few years becoming part of the chapter, one has to wonder why.

conversely, almost all the actual friends i’ve made in the old motorbike world the past ten years have come from participation in online forums. all but one of these folks is twenty years my senior. they’ve invited me camping with their buddies, stopped by the shop for beers, invited me out to their scooter shed, and gotten the families together for dinner. A couple of those guys have become close enough friends we now plan vacations.

the problem with keeping young members is that they take us at face value. if we say we are family oriented, want young people, and want to encourage lady riders, then we actually have to walk the talk. my experience in nearly a decade of membership, 30 years of amca meets, and a couple years in a chapter say otherwise. like i said, i’ve met a lot more people who are a LOT kinder via forums than i have face to face.

and, frankly, the worst people i’ve met our our national directors and ed. roy k and dan krause are cool, but i’ve had nothing but shitty encounters with all the others. spagnolli was a first class a hole to me, lonnie even worse. Keith has brushed me off more than a dozen times over the past several years. my favorite was when he told me he was way too busy, and his busy was having a beer with some chapter pres ten feet away. funny part is that every time i’ve tried to talk to a board member or keith it is to VOLUNTEER, not to bitch. we are not talking about one encounter, this is dozens of tries over several years! yet most every magazine says we need volunteers. literally, wtf?

worse, a judge recruited me. i said ok and gave my info. over the next TWO YEARS i followed up and never heard back. even saw the person face to face. so, now i want nothing to do with the program and honestly laugh every time i see a call for judging volunteers in our magazine. it’s complete and total bullshit to blow off people trying to volunteer. you could pay me at this stage and i’d still tell you to pound salt. once bitten, twice shy.

as one more aside, i lived in the uk for years and adore model engineering. i restarted my subscription to a model engineering mag and noted my former shropshire address for clubs. i literally got a call within a week from a model engineering club inviting me to stop by next time i was visiting shropshire! they know i’m 4000 miles away, but wanted to make sure i knew i was welcome if i wanted to stop by. i bought a one year subscription the next day and sent the club that called me 50 quid as a keep up the good work. i’ll be there in march and will most certainly stop by for a cuppa and to watch the trains. some clubs actually know how to treat people with respect and friendliness.

[BigLakeBob]

Chuckthebeatertruck, I'm sorry about your experiences. Glad you have thick skin. I think we are all much better off with all the knowledgeable info you freely share with us here on the forum. All your repairing techniques, very detailed builds, and all the time you take to write and respond to a subject.

[Lyle Manheimer]

Chuck, sad to hear about your bad experiences. I have been a member since 1976 with a lapse of a couple of years in the '80's, family stuff. I had to join to vend at Ft. Mott and I had a great time, I was 26 at the time. Over the years I have found that AMCA meets are welcoming events with many great people willing to talk and share knowledge and stories regardless of age. Now that I am a senior citizen I still find this to be true at the meets, I always take the time to stop and speak to people about what they are riding or selling regardless of age or brand. I also consider myself a motorcyclist.
I have not experienced many Road Runs but I do believe these events can be very cliquey. Riders may often break off into groups of people that know one another or have like interests. To be shunned by others is unconscionable and unacceptable but I have also witnessed it.
So don't give up on it, there is always room for improvement, no matter what you are involved in. Keep writing those informative posts as I enjoy them as well.

[pan620]

I debated whether I'd share my experience because I expected exactly the sort of replies on this thread telling me it is isolated incidents.

Please know I understand others are relaying your experiences joining the AMCA 30 to 40 years ago and the great friendships you've made. I expected the same in joining and in joining a chapter.

Over the past several years I've introduced myself to a lot of people and tried very hard to become an active AMCA member. I've written articles for our chapter newsletter, offered to do pro bono work for the club (I am a professional museum administrator and fundraiser), shared on this site, and the list goes on. Despite constantly trying -- pretty much no one gives me time of day and pretty much all I run into are hostile attitudes towards the bikes I enjoy.

My observation is that unless you're part of an established clique in a chapter -- you're invisible and don't have the great experiences relayed here by older members. And, it ain't easy to get into one of the chapter cliques, either.

My reality has been very different from the "good old days" and it is only because of my thick skin and eternal optimism I remain a member.

But please understand there a LOT of people under the age of 50 into vintage bikes. There's a reason they don't join.

I'd kill to have the experience RichO is explaining about his chapter. It is 180 opposite of what I've experienced.

I have had the same experience at a road run, did not feel welcome at all except for a few folks i already new but they mostly busy hanging out with the people who were in charge, worked on 2 bikes that were broke down the first day and not one thank you. Last one for me! I also attend a swap meet the local chapter puts on for the last 5 years or so, waved to the "president" and his "assistant" one the way out and said see you next year, they stared at me. I am 61 and to old for that stuff.

[T. Cotten]

The harsh reality, Folks,...

The only thing that attracts young people is young people.

Boomers haven't a chance.

They even run off other Boomers.

....Cotten
PS: I swore I would never ever join another club. The AMCA spit out Chief Blackhawk,.... and suddenly I belong to two!

[RichO]

Correction, the Blackhawk Chapter spit out the AMCA, and out here us boomers get along real well with the young riders and vice versa! Maybe it's a west coast thing but I don't think so. I've seen it back east and mid-west too!

[T. Cotten]

Correction, the Blackhawk Chapter spit out the AMCA, ...

Yes Rich!

And doing fine, thank you.

The AMCA should have learned something from it.

Come down out of your Ivory Towers, and perhaps young folks won't be so turned off.

....Cotten