Attracting younger people

[exeric]

febk.jpg

I'm embarrassed to say I only took 2 pictures. I could have taken many more, but too much jaw-boning, soft-selling, and part hunting interfered.

febi.jpg

[exeric]

Just got back from the Daytona AMCA meet. Pretty good meet, but once again the Sunshine Chapter has problems in paradise. Enough said about that, but I have to commend and praise the volunteers who make every AMCA National Meet happen and despite any problems, a big meet is always fun. I sold a lot of stuff, and pleased to say it went (mostly) to young members building up projects and at well below ebay prices. I wish there were more true antique motorcycles at our meets but still a lot of gorgeous vintage motorcycles to look at.

[duffeycycles]

Smitty liked customs as much as restored or more. He built an all chrome 1940 SS racer in 1940.
Smitty with his buddy Red fields & my brothers Little Base that he & Mickey Green built the motor.
Thanx for the pic, had many lunches with those 2.

Smitty & Red Fields 2003.jpg Smitty & Red Fields 2003.jpg

[RichO]

Smitty was one of the best,pulling Bethrod pass ( 10,000?) on his pre-16 Indian in 1987 when it seized up. pulled over no turn in either just cliff cooled down then kept pulling up and over the top.He was no spring chicken at the time.

[PRG]

Howdy Rich,

Right on, the Hampton at Daytona was absolutely Bike Week central in the late 80’s, racers, factory teams, TV personalities and, oddly, the AMCA board’s preferred place of lodging amidst all the chaos. Prone to riding antiques with no shirt, shorts, flip flops, etc.. I had already illicited a chorus of scowls from all the chaps u unmentioned. Decided in 97, it was time to bust out and bring a hotrod I’d built. Smitty probably assumed that bottom end he did for it was destined for an eventual Winner Circle machine only to discover this bright yellow yellow/black overly chromed machine next to my 39 at the front door, with helmet to match…and no shirt. They couldn’t have been less judgmental, ….Mort, on the other hand grumble a bit (again) and took a while to come around, really miss those guys, very supportive to a bit of a wild newb in their own subtle way. Only hope I can fill their shoes now approaching their ages over 35 years later. None of mine will be sold as well.

[pisten-bully]

I think there is a lot of over-thinking going on here (that comment is absolutely NOT directed at anybody here!)

If interest/dedication/enthusiasm etc. towards vintage motorcycles seems to be lacking younger enthusiasts, and growth in the younger segment of our population is a goal, then I will suggest maybe it's time to re-evaluate the goal. My unsupported-with-data guess is that enthusiasts, young and old, may constitute a fairly static proportion of our population over the years...again, either young or old, AMCA member or not!

I would say to BILL_B .... keep at it! Whatever you wind up with might not be your original dream bike, but it can get you closer. Enjoy what you have!

BTW...my kids are getting any motorcycles I have.

[exeric]

if you bring one in their friend usually follow. I had mentors like Mort Wood. Bob McClean,Peter Gagan and the like They always had time for a much younger head strong,kid. pass on your skills and passion to them it's free.why not? Remember,when you were their age? I didnt think so.

I was mentored by the old line in the AMCA and they were very giving, enthusiastic, humorous guides that I aspired too (Bud Cox comes to mind). I have never talked down to anyone (without provocation), and have always tried to help neophytes, and young enthusiasts when I could. I have recently been helping a young, and fellow Henderson owner with his 1919 Z2 and that has been a fun, and reciprocal experience because he has taught me a few things as well. Everyone has an ego and is the hero in their own movies. I try hard to remember that in my dealings with everyone because no one likes to have their feeling hurt over petty things. . . . Being married teaches us that

[JoJo357]

The last several pages demonstrate why nostalgia is so incredibly dangerous.

A poster says they managed to come up with $1000 50 years ago when they only made $2.25/hr. They think that this "ratio" is still reasonable today and that young people who want a classic bike bad enough will find a way. This is nostalgia - not reality.

Put simply; the USD is not worth 15 percent of what it was 50 years ago.

Rather than debate "lifestyle" -- let's just use facts and math to illustrate.

The first step is understanding the value of a dollar is different from the value of a motorbike. Unless the bike is brand new -- it is not tied to a market index related to production value. It is a floating variable and does not (and never has) moved with general market for day to day commodities like groceries, housing, and health care.

With that understanding, you can start debunking all this "but I did it" bs.

To illustrate: a $1000 bike in 1975, as shared in this thread, is the equivalent of a $5,866 bike today in 2025 dollars. Go ahead and look it up on inflation calculators.

Now that you've picked your electronic jaw up off the floor because you didn't realize that 1975 isn't 2025; please tell us all where we can find "rideable, reliable" 1941 EL harleys for under $6,000. Considering all the "rideable, reliable" bikes we've seen are north of $30-35K . . .

Similarly, the national minimum wage in 1975 was $2.10/hr. That works out to $12.32/hr now. Except, the national minimum wage is $7.25/hr -- a HUGE difference of 70%.

So; to recap - if a young person is making just north of the minimum as our poster in 1975, well, they'd only be making 70% less in real 2025 dollars AND chasing a bike worth a real world 700% more than it was in 1975 when adjusted for inflation (not 1000 x 700 but rather 5,866 x 7 for those who don't like math).

To put this back into 1975 -- exactly how many 30 year olds did you guys know who had $7,000 (yes, 7000 in 1975) burning a hole in their pocket for a vintage bike? That 7000 is equivalent ot $41,000 today?

However, this is a dramatic over simplification.

We're forgetting something very important -- age of machine.

In 1975, said $1,000 1941 Harley was only 34 years old. That's the equivalent of a 1989 Evo powered Electraglide which DOES sell for around $5,000 for a good, clean, reliable rider.

So, indeed, 30-35 year old Harleys DO still sell for the same as that $1000 35 year old harley in 1975.

The problem is the 1941 is now 84 years old . . .hence the value is higher than a 35 year old Harley . . .

The challenge with this thread is the older members are looking for reasons to disprove the younger members and to continue talking down to the younger members by telling them they don't want it bad enough.

None of it is true and this isn't an "us vs them" battle. Continuing to denigrate younger club members based on belief, not fact, is how club's slowly fade.

Just to get off the topic slightly, but ya' Steve, you could have given Robert McNamara a run for the money when he was a U.S. War Statistician~haha.
*Reminds me of McNamara, if you ever get a chance, watch...'The Fog of War'. An Excellent documentary!
----> https://youtu.be/nU1bzm-BW0o?si=VbS3gOznQdBdthqo <----Preview~;The Fog of War'.

CD42C77E-4BDC-4E5F-822D-71E66A676D17.jpeg

*M.A.D.*

[RichO]

if you bring one in their friend usually follow. I had mentors like Mort Wood. Bob McClean,Peter Gagan and the like They always had time for a much younger head strong,kid. pass on your skills and passion to them it's free.why not? Remember,when you were their age? I didnt think so.

[RichO]

if you hang with people that discourge or talk down to younger riders you need new friends.out here we decided that he who dies with the most toys is not the winner.we have helped them along by selling them bikes at a reduced rate they can afford. in some cases us grey beards have gifted them machines. if your house in order and you have plenty in the can in the back yard great shelter and the refer is full why not share to get the ball futher down the road, you'd be surprised how good it makes one feel to help- them get a leg up to enjoy what you have all these years,you can't take all of them with you.more than one bike it's a spare or the start of a collection.feels good to know where ones machines forever home will be to. one makes sure they have the skills and the interest. we find them on rides at swap meets etc.we listen to them and you get a feel for where their heads at. I haven' been wrong yet.
.

[exeric]

The challenge with this thread is the older members are looking for reasons to disprove the younger members and to continue talking down to the younger members by telling them they don't want it bad enough.

None of it is true and this isn't an "us vs them" battle. Continuing to denigrate younger club members based on belief, not fact, is how club's slowly fade.

I've debated you before, and I think you are the one promoting a "new member vs. old" trope. Anyone can stretch, and skew metrics but you ignored the critical word "DESIREABLE". That is an abstract, unquantifiable concept that defies math logic. Your math is flawed because the hobby and the whole world turned a '41EL into an absurdly expensive motorcycle. Your argument smacks of xxxx, xxxxxxxxx, and a disregard for older members, (or just me) who have worked hard for what they have. This should be a fun hobby but debates like this can really sour the pleasure because money talk ruins everything. I'll close by saying; enjoy and appreciate what you have worked for and achieved because life is a limited experience.

[JoJo357]

"In 1975, said $1,000 1941 Harley was only 34 years old. That's the equivalent of a 1989 Evo powered Electraglide which DOES sell for around $5,000 for a good, clean, reliable rider."

In 1975 a 1941 HD was not even eligible for an AMCA event, it was not old enough, they were focused on pre-war bikes. But following your logic and current costs, yes someone fresh from High School working a full time job could figure out a way to buy a 1989 Softail, Electra Glide or Sportster for sure for about $5k. Said bike would be than eligible per the current AMCA rules as antique.

And...if your heart is set on owning a Harley-Davidson, the Sportster line is the most economical. Well kept running examples under 1990 are practically being given away.

*M.A.D.*

[Architect]

"In 1975, said $1,000 1941 Harley was only 34 years old. That's the equivalent of a 1989 Evo powered Electraglide which DOES sell for around $5,000 for a good, clean, reliable rider."

In 1975 a 1941 HD was not even eligible for an AMCA event, it was not old enough, they were focused on pre-war bikes. But following your logic and current costs, yes someone fresh from High School working a full time job could figure out a way to buy a 1989 Softail, Electra Glide or Sportster for sure for about $5k. Said bike would be than eligible per the current AMCA rules as antique.

[chuckthebeatertruck]

The last several pages demonstrate why nostalgia is so incredibly dangerous.

A poster says they managed to come up with $1000 50 years ago when they only made $2.25/hr. They think that this "ratio" is still reasonable today and that young people who want a classic bike bad enough will find a way. This is nostalgia - not reality.

Put simply; the USD is not worth 15 percent of what it was 50 years ago.

Rather than debate "lifestyle" -- let's just use facts and math to illustrate.

The first step is understanding the value of a dollar is different from the value of a motorbike. Unless the bike is brand new -- it is not tied to a market index related to production value. It is a floating variable and does not (and never has) moved with general market for day to day commodities like groceries, housing, and health care.

With that understanding, you can start debunking all this "but I did it" bs.

To illustrate: a $1000 bike in 1975, as shared in this thread, is the equivalent of a $5,866 bike today in 2025 dollars. Go ahead and look it up on inflation calculators.

Now that you've picked your electronic jaw up off the floor because you didn't realize that 1975 isn't 2025; please tell us all where we can find "rideable, reliable" 1941 EL harleys for under $6,000. Considering all the "rideable, reliable" bikes we've seen are north of $30-35K . . .

Similarly, the national minimum wage in 1975 was $2.10/hr. That works out to $12.32/hr now. Except, the national minimum wage is $7.25/hr -- a HUGE difference of 70%.

So; to recap - if a young person is making just north of the minimum as our poster in 1975, well, they'd only be making 70% less in real 2025 dollars AND chasing a bike worth a real world 700% more than it was in 1975 when adjusted for inflation (not 1000 x 700 but rather 5,866 x 7 for those who don't like math).

To put this back into 1975 -- exactly how many 30 year olds did you guys know who had $7,000 (yes, 7000 in 1975) burning a hole in their pocket for a vintage bike? That 7000 is equivalent ot $41,000 today?

However, this is a dramatic over simplification.

We're forgetting something very important -- age of machine.

In 1975, said $1,000 1941 Harley was only 34 years old. That's the equivalent of a 1989 Evo powered Electraglide which DOES sell for around $5,000 for a good, clean, reliable rider.

So, indeed, 30-35 year old Harleys DO still sell for the same as that $1000 35 year old harley in 1975.

The problem is the 1941 is now 84 years old . . .hence the value is higher than a 35 year old Harley . . .

The challenge with this thread is the older members are looking for reasons to disprove the younger members and to continue talking down to the younger members by telling them they don't want it bad enough.

None of it is true and this isn't an "us vs them" battle. Continuing to denigrate younger club members based on belief, not fact, is how club's slowly fade.

[exeric]

My first rideable, reliable Harley was a 1941EL. It cost me $1,000 and I was making $2.25 per hour at a sh!t job and trying to go to college (circa 1975). My take-home pay was $4,000 (est.) annually so that Kunck cost me 1/4 of my yearly income in addition to rent, school, expenses, entertainment, and a 1959 Alfa Romeo Guilietta that cost me $400. Things were tight in those days but it all worked out and I did what I had to do to make ends meet. I wanted that '41EL in the worst way so I was willing to sacrifice, beg, borrow, but NOT steal to get it. My point is; there is never an era of give-away collectible objects, (excepting total economic disaster). Nice things are always expensive, and it is always proportional to available wealth, population size, and most important; DESIRABILITY ! I think it comes down to, how bad do you want one and if you are willing and receptive to restoring a 'project' into a potentially valuable bike via the 'Johnny Cash' route. If you want a nice, desirable antique motorcycle that runs, you'll pay the going price for that; and that has always been the case. You can't blame people for not giving away things they have put tons of money, and time into. . . They love their old bikes as much anyone else.