Vin nmber discussions

[KNUCK]

Some many years back I bought a knuckle in Georgia and when I came home I went to the DMV in CA to register it. The lady said "I see the number on the motor but where is it on the frame?" I said not sure. She said we will then have to re number the bike with a blue tag and rivit it to the frame leg. I told her let me go home and look and come back in a couple days.

When I went back she said did you find them and I said yes, right here on the rear by the axle. She said fine I see them, got my title in the mail shortly.

I didn't bother to mention how I found them..............................

[bobphd]

Lets say that someone aquires a set of cases only with a good vin no. or the dash of a car with a good vin no. and then gathers parts and builds a vehicle around that vin. That is a not the vehicle that left the factory with that vin and therefore is a vehicle with altered vin no.s so lets have all of those impounded, auctioned off and the thousands of people that did this jailed.

Bob

[D.A.Bagin]

Bob, As I said this was his version of the story. I do remember hearing of "Inspection" roadblocks on the thruway going to either the rendezvous or Americade where they flagged most bikes and trailers into a rest area. I also remember reading about this and having a N.Y. trooper who spoke at the banquet in Rhinebeck about 3 yrs ago tell all who attended about this type of enforcement. Here in N.Y. all you need for a transferable registration to be issued is a pencil tracing, digital picture or a LEO to look at the numbers, sign some paperwork and you are on your way till you get stopped by a knowledgable or over enthusiastic trooper.

[D.A.Bagin]

http://blog.timesunion.com/bikers/a-must-read/853/ check out comment #4 on the bottom, guess it was am-jam

[Chris Haynes]

Lets say that someone aquires a set of cases only with a good vin no. or the dash of a car with a good vin no. and then gathers parts and builds a vehicle around that vin. That is a not the vehicle that left the factory with that vin and therefore is a vehicle with altered vin no.s so lets have all of those impounded, auctioned off and the thousands of people that did this jailed.

Bob

What you have just described is known a "Special Construction". They are completely legal after being inspected by the DMV and CHP. Kinda like a '29 Ford body on a '32 ford frame with small block Chevy engine.

[bobphd]

Chris, what i am saying is that any HD motorcycle built, repaired or restored using a left case from another motorcycle no matter what, has altered vin no.s. If you take a set of 36 cases that came from another motorcycle years ago or whatever and then build a motorcycle around those cases with the correct or whatever parts and then have that motorcyle titled registered or whatever with the original vin no.s on that were on those cases from the original bike or use the title that was for the original bike before the cases were removed from it then it is a bike with altered vin no.s. Call any law enforcement agency and ask them if it is ok to remove the vin no. or part with the vin no., in this case the left crankcase, from a bike and then put it in a different bike that was built, repaired , restored or whatever, and see what they say about that being legal. My point is there is way too much critisism of vin no.s. by the same people that think what I just described is perfectly OK. It is the exact same thing as any other type of vin no. altering, repairing or restoring. The left crankcase is not the vehicle it just happens to have the vin no. on it. We have to use common sense and reason in these matters and not just go by the letter of a law. The vin no.s on the bikes we are talking about just happens to be on a part that is repaired or replaced sometimes. I also see nothing wrong with what I described above but if you go by the letter of the law it is illegal unless the bike is titled, registered as special construction and not as a 1936 motorcycle. We should be more concerned about riding and maintaining these bikes than if a no. in the vin no. has the proper serif or whatever, or if the left crankcase is the original crankcase that came on the complete original motorcycle as it came out of the factory.

Bob

[T. Cotten]

Chris, what i am saying is that any HD motorcycle built, repaired or restored using a left case from another motorcycle no matter what, has altered vin no.s. If you take a set of 36 cases that came from another motorcycle years ago or whatever and then build a motorcycle around those cases with the correct or whatever parts and then have that motorcyle titled registered or whatever with the original vin no.s on that were on those cases from the original bike or use the title that was for the original bike before the cases were removed from it then it is a bike with altered vin no.s. Call any law enforcement agency and ask them if it is ok to remove the vin no. or part with the vin no., in this case the left crankcase, from a bike and then put it in a different bike that was built, repaired , restored or whatever, and see what they say about that being legal. My point is there is way too much critisism of vin no.s. by the same people that think what I just described is perfectly OK. It is the exact same thing as any other type of vin no. altering, repairing or restoring. The left crankcase is not the vehicle it just happens to have the vin no. on it. We have to use common sense and reason in these matters and not just go by the letter of a law. The vin no.s on the bikes we are talking about just happens to be on a part that is repaired or replaced sometimes. I also see nothing wrong with what I described above but if you go by the letter of the law it is illegal unless the bike is titled, registered as special construction and not as a 1936 motorcycle. We should be more concerned about riding and maintaining these bikes than if a no. in the vin no. has the proper serif or whatever, or if the left crankcase is the original crankcase that came on the complete original motorcycle as it came out of the factory.

Bob

Good Grief, Bob.

By the letter of the law, the left case IS the motorcycle.

(For pre-'70 H-DS, anyway.)

If the VIN is not defaced, it isn't felonized.

Are you guys looking for excuses to booger VINs, or what?

....Cotten
PS: I hope you and EXERIC and others voicing such attitudes know what folks will be thinking at your estate sales.
And let us hope these outlaw attitudes do not earn the AMCA undue RICO Act attention!



Duh.

[HarleyCreation]

In 1971, I bought some stock junked Harleys including a "61 OHV" Panhead with a bowleg frame, spring fork, and re-stamped and titled as a 41EL.

I often wondered how it got that way and why, but whoever did it and for whatever reason the deed was done many years earlier in pre-chopper days. It killed any collector value for that motor, but didn't hurt how it rode or how much fun I had with it.

[bobphd]

Herb, Say it aint so! You were committing felonies by riding a felonized motorcycle. Sorry just using your common experience as an example.

Cotton, in my opinion and i would bet the opinions of law enforcement the left case is no more THE motorcycle than the metal plate on the dashboard of a car is THE car. If you take the vin no. from one vehicle and put it on another you are breaking the law.

If you go back and read my posts on this, everything I say is reasonable and based on reality and common sense and not an outlaw attitude.

I am done with this now .

Bob

[Robert Luland]

http://blog.timesunion.com/bikers/a-must-read/853/ check out comment #4 on the bottom, guess it was am-jam

Dave, That's heavy stuff. I thought they only did this in New Nazi Jersey. I was unaware that they had franchised it. Am-Jam weekend in particular, I can believe there was check points everywhere. I've been there. On the altered vin thing. People that ride bikes are no more stupid than anybody else. You know what a funky vin looks like and if you want to ride it, It's the chance you take. I am not condoning the taking of anybodies property. I agree with Chris's post. Who are you to take my property because you say it's illegal and sell it for gain and say it is.
Bob L

[Chris Haynes]

Chris, what i am saying is that any HD motorcycle built, repaired or restored using a left case from another motorcycle no matter what, has altered vin no.s. If you take a set of 36 cases that came from another motorcycle years ago or whatever and then build a motorcycle around those cases with the correct or whatever parts and then have that motorcyle titled registered or whatever with the original vin no.s on that were on those cases from the original bike or use the title that was for the original bike before the cases were removed from it then it is a bike with altered vin no.s. Call any law enforcement agency and ask them if it is OK to remove the Vin no. or part with the Vin no., in this case the left crankcase, from a bike and then put it in a different bike that was built, repaired , restored or whatever, and see what they say about that being legal. My point is there is way too much criticism of Vin no.s. by the same people that think what I just described is perfectly OK. It is the exact same thing as any other type of Vin no. altering, repairing or restoring. The left crankcase is not the vehicle it just happens to have the Vin no. on it. We have to use common sense and reason in these matters and not just go by the letter of a law. The Vin no.s on the bikes we are talking about just happens to be on a part that is repaired or replaced sometimes. I also see nothing wrong with what I described above but if you go by the letter of the law it is illegal unless the bike is titled, registered as special construction and not as a 1936 motorcycle. We should be more concerned about riding and maintaining these bikes than if a no. in the Vin no. has the proper serif or whatever, or if the left crankcase is the original crankcase that came on the complete original motorcycle as it came out of the factory.

Bob

Bob,
You wanna pass that over here when you are done toking' on it?
You had better look up the word altered in yer Funk and Wagnall.
AL·tear   /ˈɔLtər/ Show Spelled
[awl-tear] Show IPA

–verb (used with object)
1. to make different in some particular, as size, style, course, or the like; modify: to alter a coat; to alter a will; to alter course.
As a club we judge machines and give a score. If we ignore ALTERED serial number and give a score to a motorcycle that is illegal. Now the owner of that bike sells this machine. The new owner is confident that he has just bought a 99.5 point bike. He is happy as a clam, until he finds out the numbers are altered. By the way altered means the original number was changed to read something other that what it originally said.
Also we should also be able to warn our friends, and others who on on the web, that something is wrong with a number. It would be no different than warning that a machine had the wrong part on it.
If I had a '36 EL that had a bad frame and transmission and I changed them what would I need to do? If I went to the DMV and told them I made the changes they would say so what. There are no serial numbers on those parts so we don't care. If I had a 1955 Panhead with a title and I put a different engine in it it is still a 1955 Panhead. All I would need to do is tell them there was an engine change and the would put the new engine number on the title. Changing a case with bad numbers for a case with good numbers is certinally not illegal. It is simply an engine change. No more illegal than putting a rebuilt engine in your car.
Bikes were built out of pieces at the factory. It makes no difference if it is rebuilt out of pieces after it leaves.
So simply put if you don't like the discussion on engine numbers it is a simple thing to not read it.
PS Your spell checker isn't working.