Jeff

[exeric]

I hardly feel that putting better brakes and safety equipment on a bike is cheating.

I'm sure E.G. Baker, and Wells Bennett would agree; if they had disk brakes and halogen lighting back in those days.

[Slojo]

I'm sure E.G. Baker, and Wells Bennett would agree; if they had disk brakes and halogen lighting back in those days.

E.G. Baker, and Wells Bennett didn't have millions of cars and trucks with their drivers on cell phones to dodge. Did I mention in my article the nice old couple that ran me off the road when they made a left turn in my right of way during Cannonball? This was one of many road hazards I had to deal with.

How many Clinchers fell off or blew off? I have had a clincher come off in the past, the bike became 6 feet wide immediately, violently swaying left right. Anybody with clincher tire experience ran modern tires on their bikes during Cannonball, those inexperienced out to prove something risked their safety and the safety of those around them. If it were my run I would mandate modern tires and a front brake for the safety of all who are involved.

I pushed my modern tires to their limits, without the modern tires I may have been on the ground many times perhaps over a cliff. The front brake also came in handy on day one of Cannonball when excess blow off oil entered my rear brake drum causing 95% rear brake loss.

My fun factor was far above those who came with unprepared or deficient bikes, more riding less working this was a vacation for me. Short of a magneto failure and a slight fuel tank weeping, basic maintenance was all the service I had to tend to. Whatever happened to the motto "Be prepared" of "Safety first"?

Joe

[exeric]

That reminds me of the accident I had on my '51FL back in 1989. An old lady made a left turn into my path and I had no time to hit the brakes. Hospital, lots of bike repair, lawyers, etc.,etc. A fellow I worked with implied that I wouldn't have had that accident if I had been on a modern Suzuki like his. Charles Dickens could have written the rest of the story. This guy had the same accident as me; with the exception that his nemesis was a distracted young lady with a baby. His Suzuki got whammed just as bad as my Harley. I think equipment is a factor, but seconds, inches, and fate mean everything in motorcycling.

[Mr. Big]

I hardly feel that putting better brakes and safety equipment on a bike is cheating.

Chris, I wasn't calling them cheaters. I was referencing that Jeff dude's remarks that if you added brakes or rode a 3 speed than you were cheating. I'm sure he worked very hard on his machine, but to call the other participants cheaters because they didn't do it like he did seemed a little egotistical and was really uncalled for. I think Joe has a right to be offended and all the other riders should as well.

[Barry Brown]

check out the story on the "Vintagent" blog about his Paul D'orleans buddy that had a front clincher blow when they were all riding in a group in California about 2 years ago , wrapped itself around the front end , threw the guy violently and killed the poor schmuck. His wife on another bike watched the whole spectacle. I rode a 29 2 cam at very high speeds on the street and freeway for 4 seasons on original clinchers and am thinking I must have been lucky.

[BPK!!]

All I know is--I'm not eating M+M's anymore!!

[exeric]

All I know is--I'm not eating M+M's anymore!!

Now that's funny.

[Buzz Kanter]

I was there with Jeff and with Joe riding my 1915 Harley "cheater bike" with that radical three-speed transmission, modern Avon tires, and a small Honda front brake on the Motorcycle Cannonball. And frankly, knowing some of the long list of fine mechanics who worked on Jeff's bike starting before the departure in Kitty Hawk and lasting most of the ride, I'm shocked to hear some of the things Jeff said on that video. While Joe didn't pull any punches - as is typical of Joe - thank goodness, I think Joe had several valid points. What did Jeff gain by making these dramatic but unnecessary remarks for public consumption? And can Jeff explain that "original" electric headlight on his bike?

[c.o.]

I'm pretty sure that this video was shot pre-Cannonball so I'm thinking Jeff was caught up in the excitement of it all. I really think that he had the "pioneer" spirit and thought things should be done exactly as they did in the old days. I get it. Any of us can be accused of the same attitude every time we get on an old bike and hit the highway. If we were really sane we would be going to the dealership and dragging home a "new" and safe machine. Today's traffic can be nuts and why would any fella with any sort of value on his life risk his neck riding an antique? Got me but we all do it. I can see where Joe may have taken offense to the comments on that video. I mean he's Slojo.... the guy who documented (to the world!) a complete build of a '14 Grey Ghost! (improvements and all) While I don't believe I heard Jeff mention Joe specifically I can see where the perception could have come from. I would say don't worry about it Joe. It's one man's opinion and like us all he's entitled to one. You know the heart and soul you put into your Cannonball entry and you chose to make your bike safe to tear across the country on. No one can fault you for that. You did it your way and Jeff did it his. You were both fortunate enough to take part in one amazing event. I still daydream of what it must have been like.

[45OZ]

I see Slojoe point & think he is correct to be offended as well as other builders , I can also see Jeff's point about sticking with original stock bikes & the only reason I see Jeff's point here is that it was my understanding that the Cannonball originally was conceived to "RECREATE" the original ride, as the ride plans progressed it became apparent for safety reasons first that this could not be a reality, so modifications were made to improve the safety of the rider & their machines, Then the speed thing (who's fastest from point a to point be) could not be considered for Safety also, so both sides kinda are correct with their statements, & it just boils down to the old disagreement between riders, that all started when someone decided to convert their bike from 6 volt to 12 volt (6 volt is the way it should be / 12 volt is more reliable ) the only way this will ever be resolved is if they try & run 2 classes one class of original stock bikes that are timed from point a to point b, & another class of bikes modified for safety, & the other thing that would make it a true endurance ride is that any breakdowns on the road would have to be repaired with only what you carry on the bike, any other work would mean a tow in to base & fix it there. Now that would truly be fun to follow.
This is just my opinion as is Joe's & Jeff's, I was not there & Think it was a great experience for all, I enjoyed reading about it everyday
Oz

[Buzz Kanter]

I see Slojoe point & think he is correct to be offended as well as other builders , I can also see Jeff's point about sticking with original stock bikes & the only reason I see Jeff's point here is that it was my understanding that the Cannonball originally was conceived to "RECREATE" the original ride, as the ride plans progressed it became apparent for safety reasons first that this could not be a reality, so modifications were made to improve the safety of the rider & their machines, Then the speed thing (who's fastest from point a to point be) could not be considered for Safety also, so both sides kinda are correct with their statements, & it just boils down to the old disagreement between riders, that all started when someone decided to convert their bike from 6 volt to 12 volt (6 volt is the way it should be / 12 volt is more reliable ) the only way this will ever be resolved is if they try & run 2 classes one class of original stock bikes that are timed from point a to point b, & another class of bikes modified for safety, & the other thing that would make it a true endurance ride is that any breakdowns on the road would have to be repaired with only what you carry on the bike, any other work would mean a tow in to base & fix it there. Now that would truly be fun to follow.
This is just my opinion as is Joe's & Jeff's, I was not there & Think it was a great experience for all, I enjoyed reading about it everyday
Oz

Interesting idea. But please note these bikes did not have 6 or 12 volt electrics. Pre-1916 motorcycles had magnetos and acetylene lights only when new.

And I recall passing Jeff's Mercedes-Benz chase truck and support crew on the route almost every day - even though the rules forebid it. Good thing for Jeff his team ignored the rules and was following him so closely considering how often his bike broke down.

[Barry Brown]

Buzz, I think you missed the point . And you are wrong as Harley offered an all electric bike in 1915 and Indian even offered their"hendee Special" all electric including starter in 1914. There were also many aftermarket companies that could equip your bike with electric lights all pre 1916.

[SteveBarber]

Hey Joe,

Here's my X-Mas present to you! I hope you like it.
I say we re-name your bike The Grey M&M. What do you say?

[Barry Brown]

Hey Joe, If the grey Ghost ever goes into limited production I want one. I agree with Herb it is without a doubt one of the coolest bikes ever.
Steve, There actually was an M&M bike ( Marsh Metz) no s**t!

[c.o.]

Maybe it's just my perception Steve but I'm thinking you should go back and read your first post on this matter and then see if you feel justified on your last one. Just a thought, maybe I read it wrong.